How do we feel about Larry Holmes saying Tyson wouldnt have survived the Golden Era?

Name me one other fighter who talks like Holmes. If it’s the norm, you should be able to identify a few dozen.

 

You’ve picked the three most polite and respectful ATGs though.

Ali **** talked several of the past greats and a number of contemporaries but got away with it in the main because of his delivery style and gift for the gab - Larry was nowhere near as smooth.

Strip many of Ali’s comments down (including derogatory nick names - he called Larry peanut head IIRC) similarly and they were at least just as brutal and venomous -

eg. Larry could call someone an a-hole, no more, no less.

Ali could call someone an a-hole but dress it up in a poem or some other more artistically expressed insult - for many, that gave Ali an inequitable pass for the many, equally insulting things he said about other fighters.

 

I picked them on name recognition, not due to politeness. I’m perfectly willing to point out Klitschko doesn’t carry on this way. Lewis doesn’t. Tyson doesn’t. Is Tyson one of the politest champs ever?

Ali was sometimes joking, sometimes scathing of his rivals. Those who threatened his top status in real time, he was tough on. Those who didn’t, lesser men of his era, he wasn’t. & when he was retired, it all went away, strongly suggesting (I’ll stop short of saying proving, but it’s close) he talked up fights for tickets & talked smack to build his own self-belief up. I don’t think it’s at all the same thing to see Holmes, twenty years retired, calling fighters like Mike Tyson & George Foreman garbage & over-rated respectively. Not at all.

 

I don’t entirely disagree with you, particularly if it seems that a fighter continues to follow through on their negative comments years after their career has finished.

However, Ali was flat out abusive and insulting for its own (his) sake on numerous occasions.

Did Ali mellow?

It seems that he did post career but his unfortunate condition also slowed him down and likely gave him a more balanced and spiritual perspective on life.

Was Patterson a threat to Ali’s # 1 status? No.

Yet Ali heaped it on Floyd big time - calling him a rabbit for one thing, clearly implying that Patto lacked courage - and going so far as to turn up with carrots at Floyd’s training camp.

With Frazier, Ali could’ve clearly let that crap go well before Manila - but he couldn’t and he arguably cranked it up for the rubber - totally unnecessary.

Both Patterson and Frazier copped the Uncle Tom barb also.

Ali said he’d crawl across the ring and kiss Joe’s feet if Joe (who had helped Ali out during exile) beat him in the FOTC. Well, Joe didn’t hold him to that - maybe he should’ve. Lol.

Of course I can agree to disagree and, as I said, I don’t entirely disagree Ney.

It’s not all back and white and there are shades on both sides of thr argument.

 

That’s true, because I forgot about Patterson, who probably didn’t pose that big a threat in 1965 (though I don’t know off-hand what the pundits were saying). Of course, Ali’s treatment of Frazier was unforgivable. Completely unforgivable…especially for me, as a lifelong Frazier fan. He was disdainful of Frazier before they fought, & fearful of him afterward, before becoming disdainful again after Zaire (perhaps even, after Kingston). Never gave the man his due respect until they were done fighting.

There is a clear pattern here, though. Ali is usually either (partly) self-convincing that the opponent isn’t as good as they say (he was afraid of Liston, & probably Foreman, too), or he genuinely believed they weren’t that good (Frazier, Patterson). He stops all this when there is no more threat & no more tickets to be sold. He lavishes praise on Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano, & especially Tyson.

You’re never going to see Larry Holmes p%#s on these guys if they’re on fire.

 

Yeah, its's a bit strange that only gorilla is brought up among Ali's nick names. The Rabbit was very insulting and Big Ugly Bear not very nice either.

 

Yeah. Joe Louis, Ali, Marciano, Max Baer, Bowe, Quarry, Charles, Tunney, Mayweather. Sure we can find plenty. These r just a few I can remember off the top of my head who have made comments about “the current generation of fighter compared to my day” or past fighters they’ve fought. I don’t think it’s a controversial statement. To be a champ you have to be confident some of these men had it in abundance.

 

That is not remotely the same to how Holmes talks about other fighters. None of those men have ever spoken so disrespectfully & blatantly about other fighters. I can list specific shows on YouTube if you’re so inclined. He is a world-class schizophrenic delusionary.

 

Prime Mike Tyson would've been successful and extremely
dominate in most era's.... Especially of the last twenty -thirty
years.
Holmes is talking foolishness . And the more I think about
it, especially when reflecting on his susceptibility too the over
hand right. I'm beginning to believe Tyson beats any version
of him.

 

I’d say both of those things are very possible. Of course, it has to be noted, that Tyson failed to even dominate his own era. He was always less than the sum of his parts, so who knows.

 

Who did he NOT beat in his prime. Or between 1985-1990?
He beat the best fighters available
between 1985-1990.

 

I didn’t say I agree with him but men like Louis said Ali would be in his bum of the month club. lol these people are built a bit different. I don’t take their opinions seriously because I feel they’re trying to sell themselves and their legacy. Charles and Baer have spoken terribly of Liston and Walcott because they were green sparring partners of theirs. I can’t take them seriously and neither should you take them seriously

 

I don’t consider that an era. He had a run, he didn’t dominate an era. Those are two different things. You don’t lose the title at 24 in a virtual shut-out to Buster Douglas - never to be regained - & get to claim you were a dominating force in an entire age of Boxing.

 

I think people have more of a problem with the messager than the message. Holmes is right. Tyson wouldn't have been a champion in the 70s. Thats not an outlandish idea at all. People don't want to hear that from Holmes.

 

True enough, we shouldn’t take them seriously. But I can’t think of anyone as consistently & openly bitter & spiteful over the same kind of timeline as Holmes. He’s in a class all his own.

He unironically called himself the no. 1 Heavyweight of all-time. Based on achievements