Most shameless title defences of all time

Canelo vs Charlo was laughable.

 

Well Floyd had 30 scheduled rounds vs Liston in which not to make mistakes … and lasted fewer than 6 total minutes.

He made mistakes that resulted in getting knocked down 20 times in his career, more than any other heavyweight champion I’m pretty sure — and that includes many who kept fighting far too long after they had lost the abilities and punch resistance.

Liston wasn’t very forgiving of mistakes. If he had his man in trouble, he usually finished him. Certainly we know from two fights that he could have done the same again vs Floyd, and that sooner or later Patterson would do something that would result in him getting hit.

That also ignores that Sonny obviously had a psychological advantage over Floyd, who was scared shitless of him (with good reason). I mean, he literally brought a disguise to the second fight expecting he’d need to hide from the public after. That’s the only time in boxing history I’ve heard of that happening, so it stands out.

You’re also ignoring that Floyd said Liston may have had something to do with him not fighting a perfect fight vs. Sonny. In other words, what Floyd intended to do, how he intended to fight, Liston didn’t allow it.

I’ll stick with Floyd may have had a chance if he got a third fight with Sonny at just the right time, when Liston was regressing, but that it’s not a sure thing. To ignore the first two results or think that Patterson would definitely beat Liston because he had late-round power (when he didn’t make it to the late rounds in either of their first two fights, or even to the second round) is unwise.

 

Carbajal vs Cuesta,the Panamanian had no chance there, Carbajal can only pound n pound.

 

Jeffries v Finnegan.
Jeffries v Munroe.

 

Roman was ranked,[just in time to make the fight slightly credible].
Ditto Ali v Wepner.

 

Jem Ward's entire title run.

 

Good discussion. I'd like to mention something here which Floyd himself said (on camera), that he literally brought that disguise with him to all his fights, so he would be left alone when leaving afterwards. So he wore that disguise following wins, and nobody noticed because he wasn't that big a guy.

Patterson did talk on camera many times about going to Sonny's hotel room 90 minutes after Lewiston when it was just the two of them, to console him, and in one version, Floyd said he turned to walk out after it appeared Liston wasn't listening, then heard footsteps running up behind him, Liston put his hand on Patterson's shoulder and said "Thanks!"

Now if that's true, it might've changed the psychology for Patterson-Liston III in early to mid 1969, especially since Floyd was among the eyewitnesses for Lewiston. (Patterson famously said the "Phantom Punch" was "perfect." I agree. You can see the posterior of Sonny's head sharply whiplash back on impact and clearly hear it connect on the Steve Ellis announced footage. I now believe Liston could not have beaten JJW's count if Ali had immediately gone to a neutral corner. Later, Zora Folley flopped back the same way when he failed to beat the count in 1967, and George Chuvalo inadvertently confirmed nystagmus. Also, Sonny did not see him when trying to get up, and he actually did rise, expecting to continue. Liston said various things about being on the floor, but to me, the big one is that he never heard a count, which is true.)

Very admittedly, I often express edgy dissents, but if that sparks replies, then it's a live thread, not with one or two responses.

 

That was kind of Floyd in Lewiston. Maybe it would have alleviated his fears, or maybe he’d have horror-movie jump-scare flashbacks once he faced a scowling Sonny at the weigh-in. Who knows.

I think it comes down still to there being a point where Floyd could win a third bout owing to Liston’s deterioration, not that Patterson would suddenly have a big edge in such a match and would almost surely win it.

Of course there’s also always the chance that Liston would be a pretty big favorite based on their two previous meetings and some of Sonny’s ‘buddies’ might make him an offer he can’t refuse and he tanks it.

 

Wow, I don’t know what I find more far-fetched personally. Ali’s fiasco with Spinks or that his anchor punch de facto legitimately knocked out Liston. I suppose next we’ll be hearing Ali was first man into space.

 

Before we just agree to disagree, let me ask this, if you could manage Louis between December 1940 and December 1941 , who would you have him fight?

 

An unfair question, Pedro. A manager is going to take the low road and protect his meal ticket, which is patently unfair to the paying public.. I can only answer as the purist/fan that I am. My answer then would be Lem Franklin. Just in that timespan alone, Franklin beat Jimmy Bivins, Abe Simon, Tony Musto and Curtis Sheppard. He was by far the most deserving rather than Joe's people scraping the bottom of the light heavyweight barrel for an ex-contender.

 

I’d have to agree with Pedro here, for my part. The point about how busy Louis was that year was salient. Had he been quiet, sure, the complaint gains traction. As it is it seems very harsh marking. Gimmes are a part of virtually every champions reign, especially as the defenses mount.

 

Several of Calzaghe's early WBO defences jumped out in my mind ... Miguel Jiminez, Will McIntyre, Tocker Pudwill.

 

You answered to the spirit of my question not to the implication of becoming his actual manager and trying to match him with safe options, cheers for that.
Now to the point, a defense against Franklin would have been very good, he deserved it. That said, either defense against Conn or Nova surpass a defense against Franklin. Both these guys were more highly rated and, with the exception of Bivins, they beat better fighters than Franklin did.
You are telling me that a defense against a number 2 contender would have been better than two defenses against guys rated at number 1, one being an ex LHW champ, and the bundle of Baer, McCoy, Dorazio, Musto, Burman and Simon, all of which except McCoy would rank at heavyweight shortly before or after Louis beat them.
You are essentially trading eight defenses against contenders for one which by itself is inferior to some of those eight defenses.

 

Spinks vs Diamond Jim McDonald.