Let's compare these two losses. Which would you all say was the worse L? AJ & Wilder were often tipped to fight. Both arguably two of the most dangerous and feared men in the heavyweight division, once upon a time. I'd say AJ & Wilder were both favourites (perhaps the Wilder-Zhang fight was a little closer) going into the fights. With the manner of defeat not being so important here, which loss was worse? On the flip side, who got the bigger W and name on their record out of Dubois and Zhang?
Wilder was shot to pieces and significantly older. This was the best Joshua apparently, which might be right as it isn’t saying much. I think Wilder performed even worse than Joshua but in the overall context of their careers and perceived position in the division Joshua’s loss is worse.
Wilder is beyond shot, honestly I think Dave Allen beats him now. AJ was favorite to beat the young naive Dubois and got absolutely Barrymored.
Washed up Wilder just taking the loot at the end of his career. This was a complete Humble Rebuild and exposed how shyte he has always been. Journeyman Joshua is officially the new Chisora.
Clearly Wilder showed there was nothing left in the Joey 12 fight and any live opponent destroys Mr Humble - neither major shocks. After watching Joshua v Whyte round 2, it was clear what was coming when he faced a live opponent and I was astonished when Spud Ruiz obliterated him in New York.
Both got destroyed in similar fashion. Wilder was a slight underdog against Zhang. Joshua was a very clear favourite over Dubois. Most would have picked Zhang to KO Dubois, I think most still do. Wilder's KO defeats to Fury were enormously mentally and physically damaging, he was semi-retired and 38 years old, coming off a loss, 4+ years removed from losing his title. Joshua was on a 4 fight win streak, a 3 fight KO streak, 34 years old and said to be "the best version of Joshua we've ever seen". Therefore Joshua's loss was significantly worse. Dubois deserves more credit as Joshua was more live than Wilder, or at least thought to be before the fight.
Joshua's loss was worse because of all the mugs that were saying he was "a level above" Dubois, and "superior in every department", and saying Joshua was "the number 2 heavyweight" and even "the best version, would beat Usyk now" and "going to be undisputed champion next year", etc. etc. Millions of people had been suckered into believing wins against light-hitting Otto Wallin and MMA legend Francis Ngannou were special achievements. Wilder was more generally considered "old and shot" and/or "never any good to begin with" and was coming off a loss, in fact had lost 3 of his last 4, and going into the ring with a hard-hitting giant who out-weighed him by 70 pounds.
Not forgetting Helenius and Franklin in the comeback getting all those Humbleonians believing with a few words from Hearn and Belllew. Wilder gave all he had left in the Fury 3 fight which was the best fight of the era by a mile with many swings. Fought like a warrior and went out when he had zero left to give keeping going until ref stopped him or he was knocked out. Wilder retired himself with a long absence after Fury 3 in his late 30s and there really was no way back. Joshua was barely above British Level in his prime with not an elite trait in his skillset. The careful selection of very low risk opponents is why he was a strong bookmaker's favourite before he faced every opponent, only fought 2 live opponents in his career, was wobbled by a very poor Dillian Whyte, nearly knocked out at Wembley by an old man at 41 years of age, and was obliterated by baby blobby in New York. Wilder fought for the loot against Joey 12 and Zhang, Joshua was 'back to his best' after a rebuild and 'about to join the 3 times elite World Champions Lewis and Holyfield as a great'. (Mr Eddie Hearn last week) I don't see how one can be classed as a great without having any elite traits or beating any elite fighters. I give a football example to illustrate Joshua's career. FC Septic of Glasgow won 4 trebles in a row a few years ago under Brendan Rodgers. The team were called legends, up there with the best ever and playing like a prime Real Madrid in the Scottish League. The context to this was Rangers were rebuilding from the events in 2012 and basically all the opponents including Rangers were cannon fodder. This team of legends could not lace the boots of real legends such as the Lisbon Lions and the greats since that such as kenny Dalglish and Henrik Larsson. The evidence of this was loud and clear with that quadruple team of legends being pumped 6 and 7 goals by proper elite teams PSG and Barcelona. They even lost a match away from home to Lincoln Red Pimps from Gibraltar!!!! Joshua's career is exactly the same - he should be mentioned on the same level as Herbie Hide, Danny Williams and Matt Skelton. The difference with the latter 2 was there was no vacant titles to buy in those days fighting Charles Martin.
Nicely explained. But still there are people saying Joshua has a "great resume" . Charles Martin with "the IBF heavyweight title" (the worst holder of that title in history) was the cornerstone of the whole thing. Arrived in the UK to pick up $8 million to sit down for young AJ. Hundreds of flyers with "AND THE NEW! CHAMPION ANTHONY JOSHUA", printed to look like banks notes as they floated down into the ring. It was not even subtle.
Time will tell. If big Dan goes on to dominate for a run of defences then history will be much kinder than the present to AJ.
with Wilder it was almost expected, I wasn't shocked and just saw him as shot. Most people thought AJ would beat the younger fighter, I myself was expecting a Lewis V Grant situation. Losing to the younger man in such a devastating manner was pretty humiliating, especially after the buildup where AJ seemed to treat Dubois like a kid speaking out of turn. It was a terrible loss really, almost to the point the should get back in there and rectify it, but its doubtful he can, so in reality he should probably leave it. Bad way to go out though....
The one fight which defines Joshua's legacy and the one people will always remember first 20 years from now is the 1 June 2019 in New York pummelling. Since that fight Ruiz has done next to the sqaure root of zero in the ring which really adds context to that battering. Joshau was a decent British Fighter but forget about words like great or elite having failed to beat any great or elite fighter in the ring under 40 years of age.
