How Would Tommy Morrison Fare Against Shavers or Lyle?

I'd fancy him over both but particularly Shavers. I think he'd land first. Lyle has enough boxing nous and power to make it good.

 

A couple of accurate overhands by Shavers could hurt him and destroy him worse than the blows thrown by Mercer before that terrible KO.

Lyle in Foreman's version could win within 5 rounds. With other versions Morrison could have chances to KO him.

 

I watched his fight with Williams yesterday. I'd expect Shavers and Lyle to knock him out. Williams was terrible at thar point, and still almost knocked him out. And the stoppage was because Williams got tired and wanted a way out.

 

If he caught them when they were on the slide it might look similar to the Ruddock fight. Prime for prime I think they both KO Tommy more times than not.

 

He's find a way to lose, and lose badly.

 

I’d pick both to beat him, but he has a better chance against Shavers, whoever lands first, but still think Shavers beats him due to his better straight punches, which would allow him to beat him to the punch.
Lyle outlasts him.

 

Keeping in mind that I'm a major Shavers fanboy who has acknowledged some of his limitations, I heavily favor him over Morrison, and within a single round.

Earnie would only need one shot to do it, and Tommy wouldn't be elusive enough to avoid it. Shavers showed with Tiger Williams how dangerous he was off the ropes and Jerry Quarry needed 58 punches to finally land Earnie, who only sustained a grand total of seven knockdowns in his 91 bout career covering a total span of 16 years.

Nobody counts his knockout at age 51 against Brian Yates (where even then, he almost beat the count, and came within 11 seconds of surviving round two of a match he was winning until the sudden end, but his power was no completely gone).

His six visits to the floor during the consequential portion of his career from 1969 to 1987 covering 88 fights were against

1) Ron Stander (from exhaustion in five rounds after Stander took everything the inexperienced Shavers had - Stander said after his career that Earnie was by far the hardest puncher he ever fought):

2) Jerry Quarry (who again, took 58 punches to do it, and Shavers actually beat the count against an opponent who had one punch knockout power in both hands - Ali wouldn't let Jerry get a clean head shot in):

3) The vastly underrated Bob Stallings from a chopping ninth round right which Earnie got up from to finish the match (one of only two times a single punch floored him):

4) Lyle (from whom he took many bombs in Denver and necessarily punched himself out at altitude as a knockout was his only chance of winning there):

5) Bernardo Mercado (who like JQ and Lyle was a huge puncher, and like Lyle, had to get off the floor himself to do it, in seven rounds.

6) Jeff Sims from a single right in round one, from which Shavers got up to stop the big and deadly Sims for the definitive comeback win of his career.


Unlike Morrison, Earnie was never dropped more than once in a match, and except for Stallings, everybody who dropped Shavers was a dangerous puncher. (Stander buckled Frazier in the opening round, Lyle powered down Foreman twice, the only fighter to ever do so, Mercado uniquely one punched Berbick and dropped Hercules in Weaver's first major win, and Jeff Sims was initially proposed as the second coming of Liston.)


Shavers remained on his feet through 23 rounds against Holmes at a time Larry pounded Ocasio into the dirt with his jab, ruined Weaver with a single right uppercut, and one punched Evangelista, who was only stopped four times in 79 fights. The Easton Assassin had very dangerous power at that stage of his career, and through that five fight streak of his career, Earnie was his only challenger who remained upright.

My point is that Earnie Shavers had a much better chin and more punch resistance and resilience than he's stereotyped as having.


Tommy Morrison? Abruptly ruined by Mercer in five of their professional rematch after winning the first five rounds.
Bentt abruptly stunned him from off the ropes, then quickly decked him three times for a TKO win in 97 seconds. (Earnie was never in danger of losing in a three knockdown rule scenario.) Morrison did get off the deck twice in round five to stop Carl Williams in an exciting war, and again in the opening round by Ruddock in another exciting outing but was seriously staggered a few times in the process. (This didn't happen to Earnie much. Only peak Holmes and peak Cobb stopped him without putting him on the floor, Tex in eight rounds after absorbing everything to the head and body an obviously past prime Shavers could unload.) Morrison dropped twice by Ross Purrity in their draw, and knocked out in six by Lennox.

So at least nine knockdowns were sustained by Morrision in a total of 52 fights, of which the first 49 over less than seven years were of consequence. Essentially, Lennox concluded his substantive career, and thanks to a positive HIV test, he didn't really stick around much past his prime.


Better chin? Earnie, clearly. Superior stamina? Earnie. Tommy was obviously gassing with Hipp, tiring as he was running right from Foreman, and Hipp and Williams were his longest stoppage wins, where he nearly got stopped himself.

Endurance? Earnie won three knockouts in ten rounds and won rounds 13 and 14 on all cards against Ali.

Morrison was the lower case Bentt's 11th and final win in a nondescript career which saw three of his decision wins over six rounds, one over eight rounds, and one over ten rounds, his penultimate bout over Greg Page nemesis Mark Wills.

Bobcat Bob Stallings handed Blue Lewis his first defeat via TKO, decisioned Mac Foster, pushed the then undefeated Buster Mathis to a SD in a rematch, pushed an undefeated but mature Chuck Wepner to a SD, went the distance with Lyle, and retired at 32-31-0 with just seven stoppage losses in those 63 bouts, a respected Ted Lowry/Bert Whitehurst/Leroy Caldwell type. Still, it was a competitive 6-4, 6-4, 6-4, and although a monumental win for Stallings, could be classified as a minor rather than major upset. Stallings-Shavers stands out as the only ten round decision defeat before Earnie challenged Ali, although Jimmy Young was generally considered to have been robbed by a SD draw in the Acorn's next match.

For a guy who supposedly had very poor stamina, Shavers was 5-3-1 over the ten round limit. Two of those decision wins were over Rondon and Henry Clark. Morrison was 1-0-1 over ten rounds. He did decision Foreman cleanly over 12, while many believe the Acorn deserved to take the title from Ali over the Championship Distance. (Earnie however was emphatic after viewing the videotape that Ali was the rightful winner.)

When Earnie gassed in Young II, Lyle, Holmes II and Mercado, it's because he expended himself trying to go for the kill following a knockown. Admittedly, because of his enormous one punch power, he was not a great finisher, and when he tore in for the finish, his long arms were easy to tie up, as Mercado tied them up repeatedly. (Ali displayed a clinic in finishing by keeping his distance from Lyle, standing too far back for Ron to clinch and sharpshooting. Ironically, Muhammad's lack of power made him an effective finisher, while Frazier's style made him hard to clinch, and his relentlessness with his short hook did the rest. Jerry Quarry was strong enough to toss Mac Foster off him, and his short trigger fisted arms did the rest. Ron Lyle did well to survive round eight with JQ.)


While Morrison was forced to run from Foreman because George used his immense otherworldly physical strength to casually shove back an admittedly heavily juiced Tommy, Earnie wasn't that kind of fighter, so Morrison wouldn't be running from him like that. They'd be trading, and when Shavers was peak and uninjured (Henry Clark II to Larry Holmes II), one didn't exchange power with him and survive. 1976 to 1979 was also an era where his stamina was clearly superior to what Tommy had at any time in his career. Morrison's chin did stand up to Foreman without him being staggered, but he did have multiple knockdowns in at least three bouts.

Better boxer with superior skills? Depends on how you view Shavers-Clark I in Paris versus Morrison-Foreman, although I highly doubt that comes into play with Shavers-Morrison. Intelligence? Earnie sometimes trained inadequately, relying on his power instead (and often got away with it aside from that 1976-1979 time frame), but was pretty smart during competition. Although Tommy had some extremely exciting fights and terrific speed with that left hook, he seemed to be a bit of an automaton like the young Foreman, and Bentt was very careless on his part. Getting up to win against Williams and Ruddock and drawing with Purrity showed guts and Hipp was a courageous win. The guy had some heart, but could be knocked senseless.

Earnie had too many underrated traits, and a badly overrated finishing ability. Tommy's chin was so bad he had to defend the quality of his chin on camera, but we never learned enough about Bentt to consider his power top shelf, but Wills was stopped seven times (mostly by admittedly high quality opposition) and went the ten round limit with Bentt.

I just see Shavers catching Morrison early like Bentt did, and Tommy wouldn't recover. Earnie's trademark left over the head/right uppercut would be hard for Morrison to get up from. Jerry Quarry was unaffected by it, and Bugner was only dropped to his knees by it, but Tommy just didn't have their chins.

 

Never thought I’d meet a bigger Shavers fan than myself, but here we are…

 

Lyle could win over 12 rounds (did it over Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis and Bugner, all competent boxers), and unlike Morrison, he blasted down Foreman twice. Got up to beat Shavers and LeDoux (the latter when he was considerably aged). Tommy does not get up from the right handed blast Ron decked Duane Bobick cold with for five minutes in their amateur rematch. (Professional or amateur, only Lyle ever put down Duane for the full count twice. Lyle would have absolutely killed Teo Stevenson in the 1971 Pan Am Games and Munich Olympics. He was easily the world's best amateur heavyweight in 1971.)

Ron had three eighth round knockouts, two ninth round knockouts and two tenth round knockouts, in addition to those three 12 round decision wins. I see no way for Morrison to win this one. (Plus, Foreman has said Tommy's power wasn't even in the same planet as Ron's, and the footage completely supports that.) He was a pretty durable. Shavers decked him (hardly any indictment of Lyle's chin, since he got up to win), Jerry Quarry stunned him in what many think was JQ's best career performance, Ali gassed him out in a bout Ron was ahead in, Foreman finally pounded him down with attrition in a legendary war, then he was 38 for the upset by Lynn Ball and approaching 40 for Cooney.

No way Tommy Morrison's best is as good as Ron Lyle's best.

 

Both fights would be good action packed and I don't see either going long either. I think it's pretty much 50/50 in both fights.