What was wrong with Jess Willard and Primo Carnera?

Wasn't Carnera a mob backed fighter who fought tons of fixed matches?

 

They couldn't fight for $hit.

 

Their fundamentals. They had the size, strength, conditioning and attitude of boxers but they didn’t have the skills.

 

You're a funny guy!

 

They were big so people assume they only won because of their size. To a degree this is correct but people take it too far.

Willard also didn't really do very much during his career and boxing really wasn't a priority for him.

 

They weren't Irish. Willard did have skills, a fine jab, smashing right uppercut, decent defense, he could counter well, was quick and graceful, and he was supremely conditioned for Havana. Unlike Carnera, Abe Simon and Valuev, he didn't have acromegaly, and set a record for longest lived former heavyweight champion, smashing the previous mark set by Jeffries. He was a rodeo entertainer. Anybody who ever watched the World Superstars competitions knows what excellent athletes are produced by rodeo.

Temperament was an issue. He didn't have any interest in boxing, but was seen by somebody in boxing impressed by his size and physical strength as he effortlessly hoisted bales of hay about, and he decided on the spot, "What the heck? Why not?" Unfortunately, he killed Bull Young with one of those uppercuts, and for Dempsey, he just wanted to go the 12 round distance and not hurt the "little' kid, then go back to his peaceful farm. He was never hungry, and never needed boxing to get by, but let himself be drafted in like Emile Griffith was. Even when he won the title in Havana, you don't see him celebrating, but rather stoic and blasé about it all.

Carnera didn't have the temperament or the power, although he was extremely well conditioned with loads of stamina. He wouldn't have beaten the faster and harder punching Willard though.

Primo made the most of what he had, his long jab, physicality and heart. Going 11 rounds with Max Baer on a fractured ankle is crazy, as is returning to competition after losing a kidney, and nobody ever counted ten over him.

Given the choice, I'd have rather developed Willard, but nobody was beating Dempsey in Toledo. Jack did say Jess nailed him with a pretty hard shot which made the Mauler clinch.


As with Jess and Bull Young, Primo wasn't exactly enthused about what happened to Schaaf. Max Baer was severely compromised after Frankie Campbell as well. Louis and Dempsey never had anything like that hanging over their heads.

 

Straight and to the point.

 

They had some skills but the overriding advantage was their size.

Willard did catch Dempsey with a few decent shots, which can be clearly seen on film.

However, that disastrous first round was impossible to come back from.

Jess was poorly conditioned and incredibly complacent going into the fight - and at 37, not so young.

How likely was it for Demspey to connect with that perfect left hook in the first round anytime during the opening 4-5 rounds?

Probably quite likely but it still was one of the singularly best left hooks I’ve ever seen and it was the punch that started the rot - after that humongous shot, Jess had nothing but pure guts to help him see out the first round.

If Jess somehow hadn’t been caught so early with such a punch, possible he might’ve survived long enough to see Dempsey begin to tire.

Then again, the duration for that fight was only 12 rounds IIRC.

Quite a suitable limit for Demsepy but not so much for Willard if he was looking to tire Jack out as he did Johnson.

 

Jess: Started boxing too late, didn't like hitting people and didn't have the temperament for boxing.

Primo: not a particularly good chin for his size, didn't punch as hard as one might expect of a guy who was 270 pounds of solid muscle, and suffered from a severe case of Bruno's disease.

But I'll go against the grain and say both had the physical tools of elite modern super heavyweights. Jess had excellent hand speed and stamina, and Primo was certainly not slow.

 

Willard did not want to be a fighter,he took it up solely for the financial rewards,his heart was never really in the game.
Unless he was hurt himself he was content to box his way to victory behind his jab,he had power in his right hand, but seldom used it.Possessing a top chin, he wasn't ever a natural.
Carnera was a manufactured fighter ,he became a reasonable boxer for his size,he lacked power and durability, hit on the chin he fell apart,cynically exploited by the mob,he was robbed by them and cast aside when his usefulness was over.
Today's giants are by and large, much better coordinated.

 

1. Because if they don't, the conclusion would quickly follow that the old timers could beat the modern giants.
2. There is a grain of truth in it.

 

Do Willard and Carnera beat;
Dubois.AJ,Fury,Zhang,?
Do they even beat Bakole?

 

Right now AJ's stock is so low in General that he needs to watch out for Braddock in the H2Hs