Underrated reason why Holmes was the best of his era

It is not, “interacting with you,” to anonymously make an off-hand mention of something you posted. I’m not baiting you. You keep coming to me. The reason I don’t name you is specifically not to start a debate.

 

I don't think it is an outrageous claim either way, which is the point I was making brother man. Some here seem to think it is outrageous one way or the other but it's only opinions and fun debate. I think I'd also lean toward Holmes having a better resume than Foreman by the way. But. It's only an opinion.

 

& not one person to my knowledge has said Holmes above Foreman is some obscene opinion. Myself included. I do bristle though at people calling me a troll if they want to spout flagrant nonsense like Foreman’s CV pales in every possible metric to Holmes’, or that there is no case for Foreman above Holmes.

 

You do it deliberately to have digs at me knowing I've asked you multiple times to stop doing it. I'm coming at you because you're posting snide comments about me on consistent basis. And then you have the audacity to say you "spared me" are you for real ?

I think anyone would call you out for it so I'm supposed just to accept you constantly posting snide comments at me ? I don't think so mate.

All this over a debate BTW absolutely baffling.

 

That is your personal, subjective, & frankly very inaccurate perception of the matter. You asked me not to engage with you & I am quite glad to oblige - so you see the truth is it’s quite far from me baiting you, I don’t wish to hear from you at all. But the idea that something you post can be in no way mentioned, even when I’ve made careful point not to name you as the author, is absurdly over-sensitive. Why not trademark your posts & stamp, ‘Not for re-production’ if you’re going this far? It is not a, “snide comment,” to quote you, LOL. Honestly. You asked me not to engage with you, I haven’t. You ask me not to ever mention your posts in any way, shape or form, even anonymously? Get real. Could you behave any more self-important?

Anyway, no one else wants to read our discussion. PM me if you’re going to insist on taking it further & we can spare everyone the derailing.

 

Tyson really did end a lot of those guys’ last hopes (Pinklon, Tubbs, Truth Williams, Marvis etc). We forget what an animal he was. In the late 70s some of those guys were taking rounds off T.Stevenson overseas.

 

Here's the issue i have with you i'm trying to be as nice as possible here.

You're over simplifying it and that's not quite what happened.

We had a debate on Foreman/Holmes a week ago you made an off hand remark about me to another poster in the thread about me being "intellectually dishonest". So i said to you if you have something to say to me say it and then i gave you a run down of my thoughts Holmes/Foreman.

You then replied with "I've checked out of you on this subject" so i took that as you didn't want to discuss it any further which i respected. And since me and Man_Machine ended the debate in friendly way i thought that was the end of it.

I then caught you in another thread mentioning my name again to another poster making another snide comment about me i can't remember exactly what you said. But i was quite baffled why you were doing it when nothing had even happened between us other than a difference of an opinion on Foreman/Holmes so i replied and said something along the lines of......

"I don't know you feel the need to keep making snide comments about me to other posters when nothing has happened" you then replied and said....

"I will keep mentioning you"

So i replied and said....

"if you want to hold onto a grudge on a boxing forum over a simple debate/difference of opinion. Then don't bother interacting with me because i don't want to argue on the internet"

So it's not like i flat out said you have to stop speaking to me, i said if your only intention is to make snide comments about me and hold onto a grudge with me then you "shouldn't" interact with me which is a bit different than the way you're putting it.

You then @me when you were discussing a topic with Journeyman92 that had nothing to do with me and i wasn't even active in the thread to quote me about my post about not interacting with you.

And since then you've continued to make snide comments about me to other posters when i've told you 3 times now including this thread to stop doing it. You arrogantly said you've "spared me" and you still feel the need to obviously bait me in a thread i'm active in so yes you know exactly what you're doing.

As for a PM to be quite honest i'm over you and frankly tired of these childish games. I've gave you multiple opportunities to make amends and even offered previously we speak in PM if you want to settle our differences. But it's obvious you have no intention of doing so and want to continuously make snide comments about me to other members and then have the audacity to say you're doing me a favour.

So yeah i'm putting you on ignore which is probably the best for both of us and the forum so these arguments stop derailing threads.

 

So getting back on point, yes Holmes certainly benefitted from his committed attitude which makes me wonder how he fares if everyone had the same disposition. He was still the best of the age, but he might’ve been a two-time champion if his contemporaries could’ve gotten their act together. The few times they did, they pretty badly dented Holmes’ case vs some of the all-time greats, IMO.

 

It goes without saying that ALL my posts are not for reproduction - UNLESS they are used in ways that are completely flattering to me.

Of course, even then, payment of royalties will still duly apply.

 

I feed my dog from the table exactly because he never defecates on the carpet.

Okay, I lie. I don’t have a dog. I have a cat. And a very well trained cat at that.

Same difference. Meeooww!

 

Holmes had that quality of Championship Heart. Not sure Witherspoon, Smith, Page, Dokes, Thomas, Tucker, etc. had that. I don't think ever I saw most of the 80s fighters have the guts to scrape themselves up (often literally off the floor), come back and win. Or look like, win or lose, they'd die trying. Watch Wilder in the second and third Fury fights, he was fantastically courageous despite seeming at times a bit overmatched. He lost, but he looked like a Champion. Arguello vs Prior I and II, Arguello fought his ass off. Championship Heart.

 

Tyson Fury ducked many dangerous opponents. He didn't dominate anything post 2015

How are guys supposed to beat him if he won't fight them

 

By that logic we would have to rate Foreman behind his conqueror Jimmy Young

I don't think an out of shape Frazier is necessarily a better win than Witherspoon either.

 

I would say it is better to lose to Young than a career LHW.

Witherspoon was 12 fights, in...green. So even the "shape"excuse doesn't cut it.

 

Oh, c’mon now. Frazier’s my favourite fighter of all-time, period…I would grab this excuse with both hands were it available.