For the people insisting Rocky was "hard to hit" and had "underrated cleverness"

Cheers bud. No hard feelings.

 

Foreman
Liston
Holmes
Lewis
There are others who'd keep him at bay

 

4 guys people consider ATGs? Keeping the 185-190lbs 5ft10 fighter back? Colour me unimpressed? for a start I think Lennox smothers Marciano’s chances every time he gets close, Holmes just keeps him back and busts him up (he’s too big too skilled) Foreman might be stupid enough to let Marciano beat him up inside… he doesn’t keep him away but he probably beats him. Liston I’m positive Marciano beats he like Foreman I never saw play keep away with his jab lol.

 

Problem I have is that you completely ignore the part of the quote where Louis states “by the time he fought Marciano he had vastly improved”. Can you tell everyone why you completely ignored that part?

Also Marciano by fighting low, slipping, parrying, bobbing and weaving and most importantly moving back and forth from back to front foot made himself a difficult target. An aggressive puncher is going to get hit certainly but absolutely Marciano is underrated in this regard.

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How can you dwell in a void? Are ypu a black hole?

 

Rocky's advantages are granite chin and ability to absorb punishment. Both of which come into play when he lands a Suzy Q on Roy's ceramic chin.

 

His chin wasn't granite given the Walcott and Moore knockdowns. Between the two Jones has the most impressive punching feats the first to kayo Hill, the only guy to kayo Woods, etc.

What if Roy lands first?

Anyway, the point about Roy's chin is fair and that might give Marciano a path to victory. But it still seems like more than Louis and Holyfield are major problems for Marciano below 200. Toney was never knocked out in more than 70 fights including by guys like Peter, Rahman, Oquendo, etc so a Rocky kayo there seems extremely unlikely. Is he really going to be able to outpoint Toney over 12 given Toney's skillset?

 

In his autobiography Louis said Marciano was a street brawler,and that he himself was doing okay against until his legs went on him.

 

To be fair Louis even at 37 still had arguably the best jab in the heavyweight division. Louis didn't have the powerful right hand anymore and he couldn't put combinations together like he used to, but Louis still had an amazing jab, which is why he was still able to beat guys like Bivins, Brion, and Walker, so it isn't a shocker Marciano had trouble with it.

Holmes during his comeback was even older than Louis, but like Louis was still able to compete with the top fighters, who were way younger because his jab was still the best.

Marciano could be hit like any fighter could, but he wasn't that easy to hit clean or square and his record speaks to that.

Here is Archie Moore speaking on Marciano against Muhammad Ali following the first Liston fight. Archie admits that Marciano isn't easily to land clean on.

What about Rocky Marciano against Clay?

"I believe Marciano would knock him out. Marciano throws too many hard punches for Clay to dodge. Why in the hell Marciano doesn't come out of retirement, I don't know. He's only 38 now. He's a good man, a clean liver; he's stayed in shape."

"Marciano would break Clay in two Marciano boxes low, and he throws eight or 10 punches in a sequence. He's hard to hit, to nail solid. He keeps throwing punches like a propeller."
https://imgur.com/4g3Dh3x
https://imgur.com/Pifg0KF
https://imgur.com/a9qRicy

Holyfield talking about how dangerous a great jab can be

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I'm one of Maciano's biggest supporters, but I think ali would win in a tough fight. Ali has enough durability to weather the storm. Most like UD or TKO by cuts.

 

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How long was Rocky down? You have to also look at the way he was seated and more importantly what happened afterwards…
Both Moore and Walcott were experts at using an opponents momentum against them, Rocky always threw hard or was pressing - so when those guys caught him he was moving into it, he got up easy enough though.
I believe Moore got him with a shoulder roll counter of some description and Walcott with a flush left hook coming in, if you’re a cagey guy like Toney who never had to come to your opponent you rarely get tagged as hard as Marciano, like Basilio if you’re fighting that way you’ll get hit it’s unavoidable but those guys became extremely skilled mitigating that.
I watched Roy Jones not too long ago, he spent a lot of time at mid range, using his legs etc but on the ropes or inside he usually threw him his gloves and turtles a bit, Moore / Walcott didn’t need to avoid that danger zone they fought at every range and more counters were open to them, Marciano will get Jones to fight inside like 49 before him had to and bust him up.