Manuel Ramos, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis and for good measure, Muhammad Ali. He then took on George Foreman who, while destroying Frazier, was undefeated in 41 fights the first time and still a force to be reckoned with the second time. If that doesnt spell proven.....
He was the only one to defeat Ali in a clear way and the only one to get up so many times with Foreman. None has succeeded. Hes firmly in the 10 best Hws ever.
Basically Frazier's chin has a question mark against the big hitters. And by big hitters I mean ~220lb guys that can punch.
Exactly! Frazier was in his prime in the early 70s. After losing to Foreman and the "Thrilla in Manila," he was already close to the end of his career, while Shavers and Lyle have their biggest fights. The only puncher that Joe Frazier avoided was Sonny Liston, Frazier's managers didn’t want him to fight someone like Liston, and considering the Foreman fight, that was the right decision. Styles make fights.
It's not clear that Ken Norton would've beaten the version of Quarry that Joe Frazier virtually walked through. James Ellis from 1970 is an interesting match with Kenny.
Calling an Olympic gold medalist/world champion unproven is a little much. Just look at the run Frazier had two years before winning the title. He had back to back fights with Machen, Bonavena, Jones, Mathis, Quarry etc. Those were all top fighters of that time. I will say that Frazier had a relatively short career compared to a lot of guys. His career was basically ten years but man, he fought a lot of top guys and was in a lot of brutal fights. Joe was not unproven. He was a truth machine. With that said, I think I get what the OP was trying to say. Joe was a very small heavyweight and didn't match up well with larger heavyweights that could punch like Foreman and he likely would struggle with bigger men from other era's like Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko's etc. He still was a great fighter
Nah, he is good poster. I think the word unproven in the title was a little much. I get what he was trying to say about Frazier not having success fighting big punchers like Foreman but in fairness to Frazier, most of the big punchers of his era were smaller guys. Lyle and Shavers would have been interesting fights but they simple weren't top guys when Joe was champion. One big puncher that would have been a fun fight was fellow Philly fighter Leotis Martin. I believe that fight would have happened had Martin not had a detached retina which ended his career. Frazier was the real deal that didn't duck anyone. It simply wasn't in his DNA.