How do some people rank Louis over Ali?

Maybe I've answered this already, but Louis's amazing consistency over his 12-year reign and his deciviness in rematches is the argument for him over Ali. Not a bad one either.

 

Who is your nr. 1?

We'll never know, but my guess is that Ali would look even better if he was away between 70-74 instead of 67-70, especially if he did exhibitions and a title defence rather than college appearances during that time.

I think he beats Frazier and everyone else during the late 60's, and Foreman after coming back. He beat him in real life around that age, so see no major reason to believe this would be different.

He would probably lose to Norton and some other fighter in the late 70's, but don't think that would count much against him at that stage in his career.

So with a title reign to match Louis's, going undefeated well into his 30's and maybe also regaining his title I think he would sit comfortably at nr 1.

 

I have Ali a clear number 1. But then, I factor H2H more than most. I think there are very few who can beat Ali.
I have Louis at a precarious number 2, due to consistency, but don't hate on Lennox or another at 2.
But then, many think I am a clown, because I have Bowe at 10, and I might even replace him with Usyk, depending on how the next couple of years go.
Each to their own.

 

Joe Louis...the perfect boxer-puncher....champ from 1937 to 1949...25 title defenses...a national hero...

 

I agree with most of this.

What made Galento one of Louis more important bouts? He was another title defense. There was some good PR from Galento (murder da Bum) actually Galento's manager was supplying the colorful quotes

 

I think Ali has the strongest argument for the cat birds seat. Based on the quality of opposition. Ali was also never knocked out or stopped anywhere near his prime Louis was. That matters since we're talking about #1.

Ali doesn't lack longevity at all. He spanned eras as Louis did. At the end of the day Louis is the only other heavyweight within shouting distance of Ali.

Having Louis as your #1 is a reasonable position based on his longevity and dominance and the finality in which he finished his contests.

 

Imagine being the key word. We have to deal with what is real.

 

Louis was being greedy, he made sure no one but him was champ. The Buddy Baers, 2 Ton Tony' and Billy Conns may of got a knock down or look good, but in the end, Louis made sure he was champ. 12 years 25 title defenses. You go over to Ali and that guy was handing out championship reins like it was candy lol. Joe Frazier, George Forman and 7-0 Leon Spinks was walking around with the belt around his waist. What a nice guy he was.

 

If anybody had taken the title from Louis before the war, and looked good doing it, then by default you have another Joe Frazier.

I am not saying that Arturo Godoy would have been another Joe Frazier, if he had walked away with an ugly split decision win.

They woudl have had to look good doing it.

 

And being undefeated and looked good beating the other top contenders.

There's lot of myths around Ali's era, and one gaining popularity as of late is that Frazier's reputation only is built on beating Ali, which plainly isn't true. Frazier was a favourite going into the fight for a reason.

 

That reason would be that Ali was coming off a long spell of inactivity, and that his best wins were still ahead of him.

 

Sure, Ali wasn't seen as what he had been, but he was coming off stoppage wins over Quarry and Bonavena for chrissakes and was still the underdog. That says a lot about how highly rated Frazier was at the time. As he should be after beating aforementioned men himself plus Ellis and Chuvalo. He had been rated as the top fighter throughout Ali's absence. There is no one that Louis beat that had that kind of dominance over the rest of the division.

And his best wins were still ahead of him? Except Foreman, which one was better than Liston you mean?

 

Louis got out with a win in the first Godoy match and destroy him in the rematch. Ali may had amazing rematches vs say Fraizer or Norton, but he did not "Improve" as the other guy did make a good account of himself. Louis waltz in and lays em flat. What made Ali and Frazier, and their fights special was the back-and-forth action of their battles. How would the rival look had Godey got away with the win in the first match, Louis destroys him in the rematch, you think people would want a 3rd match?

 

I don't know who should be number 1, they are both great. And different. We will find valid arguments for each of them, and that's ok. But I won't agree with all of them, and I won't choose any of them.
The arguments for Ali are often not very good.
Speculations...
1. We cannot give him points on credit based on the fact that Ali had a 2-year break at the peak of his career. For what reason? and why over Louis? How to measure for whom this break was worse? if even this... Ali achieved his greatest successes after the break, Louis before. What would have happened if Ali had not had a break, what would he have done in the 68-69 season? ? defeated Thud Spencer?
2. Frazier ok.. When? Durham was cautious, probably 1969. Would Ali be better than Foley? I doubt it... he would start getting old already. He wouldn't be so hungry, he wouldn't strive for the top but defend it, he would be a well-fed champion. How do we know if the two-year break didn't help him regain his hunger and freshness? For me, Frazier is still the favorite, at most 50-50.
3. Ok, let's assume that Ali had beaten Frazier in 1968, 69 or 70. Would he have beaten ATG from a historical point of view? or rather someone like Tyrell Biggs? What would Frazier have without the victory over Ali?

Facts
Ali's CV is the best ever, absolutely. No HW can come close to him, no one has defeated so many outstanding opponents. But even a great CV can be overrated. Ali is Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Norton. But against Norton in 3 fights he was at best the same, I think a bit worse. It's hard to say with Frazier, I think the first fight was the best and most decisive. He caught Foreman and Liston at the perfect moment, perfect. These are great victories, but not as outstanding as they are portrayed