Double Standards

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MaccaveliMacc, Nov 19, 2024.


  1. ElFrutero_46

    ElFrutero_46 Hey lithen right Full Member

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    Did you read the actual report?
    Did you watch the fight?
    Did you see how Ali talked and moved?
    Did you follow Ali's carrer up to that point?
    This isnt really complicated man
     
  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, I read the same things you did and saw the same things you did.

    The esteemed neurologist at perhaps the top medical facility in the entire world said there was no finding that should preclude him from fighting nor withholding a license.

    That isn’t complicated. You’re on a commissioner. You’re not a doctor. You order him to go to the world’s top medical experts and accept their judgment.
     
  3. ElFrutero_46

    ElFrutero_46 Hey lithen right Full Member

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    Im not even gonna bother on entertaining you
    'Everybody involved with that fight should've went to jail'
    Ali's personal doctor, Ferdie Pacheco
     
  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And what did Ferdie Pacheco say at the time, after Ali went to the Mayo Clinic. That he was very happy that he got clearance but that he still believed Ali shouldn’t fight anymore.

    “At this point it is a boxing decision. I haven’t been with him for three years. As a friend, I would not like to see him risk what he already has done. If he has clearance, I ecstatic. I have done what I set out to do. I urged him to get a full medical examination. That was what all the hollering was about.

    “I thought that at his age (38) and in his condition he should have had the examination years ago. Now it is a career decision for him.”

    Hmmm. He didn’t tell the Washington Post at the time that anyone should be arrested. He said that years later.

    Go do your homework. You will notice that at the time Pacheco’s concerns weren’t about Parkinson’s nor neurological in nature. He thought Ali had kidney disease from laying on the ropes and letting guys like Joe Frazier and Earnie Shavers pound on his body.

    You will also note that nowhere in the Mayo Clinic report is the word Parkinson’s mentioned. Same from his medical report when he visited UCLA. (I think that one was before Berbick.) You can’t find a medical expert at the time who ever brought that up as a possibility.

    Yes, it turns out he did have Parkinson’s. It was not known at the time … by Ali, any of the doctors who examined him nor anyone else. It’s Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

    How did he move? Training camp reports were that Ali looked better than he had in years. People were mesmerized by his weight loss (due to using thyroid medication as if it were diet pills).

    He looked as bad as he did vs. Holmes because of the thyroid pill abuse. When he fought Trevor Berbick, he looked much better than against Holmes — not good, but he went 10 fairly competitive rounds with a contender.

    Should he have retired earlier? Sure. But there was no basis to not let the fight happen based on what was known at the time — you can’t refuse a guy a license to fight on medical grounds after sending him to a top world-class medical facility to be checked out and those doctors say there’s no reason to stop him from fighting and no medical basis for refusing him the license.
     
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  5. ElFrutero_46

    ElFrutero_46 Hey lithen right Full Member

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    This is a man suit to fight for the HW championship to you?
    This content is protected

    Also, having trouble touching your nose, slurring your words and being sluggish while jumping on one leg despite being an athlete for the past 30 years is a dead giveaway that something is wrong, its common sense.
    Parkinsons was obviously not mentioned because he didnt have a tremor in his hands, people just assumed he was punch drunk.
    The only reason Ali looked "decent" in the Berbick fight is because of muscle memory, even in the 90's ali could box pretty good.
    The proof speaks for itself, dont know what youre trying to get here except attention
     
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  6. ElFrutero_46

    ElFrutero_46 Hey lithen right Full Member

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    Basically what i'm saying is that if you, as a specialized doctor, find at least 3 examples of a fighter clearly not being ready for a championship fight and you let it go regardless, your opinion, at least in this particular example, should not be taken as honest at all. More so with the promoter of the event being don ****ing king.
     
  7. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Talking about setting records. Another clue Ali rigged his fights with Spinks.
     
  8. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali was deluded even after the fight. He said he needs 2-3 tune up bouts and he would challenge Holmes again.
     
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  9. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greatest Brain Washers of All Time

    1) Donald Trump
    2) Muhammad Ali
    3) Big Brother
    4) evil clown from Scooby-Doo
    5) Dr. Caligari
     
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  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The decision was made by Herbert Muhammad not the corner.
     
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Moore was ranked no 9.
     
  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    I truly admire your allegiance to Williams.

    It may well surpass my own loyalty in regards to Ingo -

    I can only suspend reality so far when it comes to my man Thor but I will stretch it as far as possible. :D
     
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  13. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    For all discussions of the subject otherwise, it does simply boil down to double standards.

    Suffice to say, Larry didn’t have the same flare and style (as Ali) for insulting and belittling people.

    Notably, young Ali also ragged on the great Joe Louis quite bit - personally I think that was Freudian in so far as Ali being well aware of just how good Joe was and what a challenge he would be in a prime vs prime scenario.

    Conversely Ali had nothing but nice things to say about Marciano - which I could speculatively put down to Ali actually believing deep down that he definitely had Rock’s measure.

    If you’re not prone to fan boyism or haterism, there isn’t a lot of reason to dislike Holmes any more than a lot of other fighters. Just imo. (Sorry Ney :D).
     
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  14. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Believe it or not, I agree. But the key point there is, “in comparison to a lot of other fighters.” Other fighters are rapists. Other fighters are wife beaters. Other fighters are career criminals.

    Sure, Holmes looks pretty great in that crowd. But he’s still the worlds most obnoxious dick :D
     
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  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    (Your number) 1 of 5 ain’t bad.
     
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