Why did Ali let his conditioning go in the 70s?

Yes. And before the exile he had worked out diligently since age of 12, so that was pretty much what he knew. When he was exiled he got the first taste of a more normal life as an adult and might have found it hard to regain the discipline he had had.

 

As you get older you naturally put on a bit more weight Ali was in his 30s that's natural.

I don't think Ali let his conditioning go completely in the 70s he was in terrific shape vs Norton 2, Foreman, Frazier 2. Etc.

I think the weight started to become more of an issue after the Foreman fight that was when he started rapidly declining and you'd see his weight often go above 220+ which wasn't a good weight for him IMO.

 

The rematch was a real make or break fight for Ali. Two consecutive losses to Norton would’ve been disastrous. I think it’s great that Ali immediately rematched Norton and reversed the loss, displaying an important attribute of an ATG and something he needed to fully repair his psyche.

However, I wonder if Ali had elected not to rematch Norton, could he have still viably maintained his path to the Frazier rematch and ultimately a title shot at Foreman?

With Ken getting first crack at Foreman and being destroyed, it seems Ali still might’ve remained on track.

As it was, the Norton loss was a good wake up call - with Ali then taking his best ever second career conditioning into not just the Norton rematch but into the Frazier rematch also, and ultimately taking that run of superior training ethic and conditioning into the Foreman fight.

So it might be said that from the Norton loss through to the Rumble In The Jungle, it was all necessarily meant to be.

 

Good point. Particularly after the FOTC, Ali had an insane schedule - at the same time, Frazier’s was the opposite.

 

It’s sort of ironic that an average, middle of the road athlete (including non pro) can stay in pretty good trim their whole life.

Conversely, via intense training and dedication, elite athletes can achieve levels of conditioning the average guy, all be he acceptably fit, will never know - but, at some point, likely post retirement but possibly even earlier, the physical conditioning of quite a few elite athletes can suddenly go to pot - becoming worse than even Joe average.

Part of the reason for that I assume is that years and years of acutely intense training can eventually amount to aversion therapy - aversion to maintaining even average levels of health and fitness.

 

Ali looked pretty fit until Norton took his robe off.

 

If your average Joe goes through the trouble of getting fit and lean, while staying that way over the course of their lifetime, it's because they want to. The being fit/lean is the goal in and of itself. For a pro, it's the side effect of the training they have to do in order to be competitive.

With heavyweights, you can tell the ones who will stay fit for vanity reasons. It was always obvious Holyfield, Wlad, and Vitali wouldn't stop going to the gym - staying that lean into your late 30s (late 40's for Holyfield) while also doing the work required to be competitive at a high level means a whole lot of portion control that just sucks. Different for lighter weights where they don't have a choice if they want to stay in a certain weight class, but does anyone think Floyd Mayweather will ever be seen rocking a beer gut? Too much of a gym rat and too vain (also seems to have a genuine love of running, which sure helps). For a current HW? AJ. Anyone think there's a chance he doesn't just switch over to standard bodybuilding workouts and nutrition when retired, stay looking the same physically?

 

Being in shape and being in fighting shape are completely different things, it is entirely unrealistic to be in fighting shape all the time as it would be damaging to the nervous system, essentially overexertion and maybe shock, Tyson has talked about this at times he said the unwritten agreement that you might die in boxing means even in training it is a possibility

 

Yeah, three more fights in '71 after that brutal war with Frazier, six in '72 (all of them ranked except Foster and Chuvalo, I think) and four in '73 despite having his jaw broken by Norton. Some - like Blin, Mathis and Lubber - must have been less taxing than many of his sparring sessions, but all on all he faced everyone that mattered, except maybe Lyle, from FOTC until stepping into the ring in Zaire.

 

Ali didn't have a bodybuilder physique like Kenny but at 210 to 220 he looked hard.

 

Ali still looked plenty fit but Norton always had that muscular definition, a different proposition……Carson’s sidekick Ed McMahon seemed a bit overly enamoured of Ken’s physique…..

When I say average Joe, that’s within the realm of those who do bother to keep fit for its own sake but obviously not at the level or maintenance of a pro athlete.

Some fighters might’ve been that guy (average Joe or better) anyway but for the necessary hyper intense fitness regimes of their chosen profession over many years.

There would be grey area in between for many fighters (and athletes in general) who dedicated themselves to fitness for its own sake and who also lifted their efforts in that regard as and when required by their chosen sporting endeavour.

So, just imo, being fit isn’t always just a side effect…but being pro level fit definitely is - for many, only the lure of $$$ can take you to such extreme efforts and levels of conditioning.

As to aversion, crazy and possibly ill fitting analogies - but similar to the plumber, electrician or mechanic who, outside of their chosen professional obligations, become adverse to fixing their own home taps, wiring and car.

So, something they liked doing but something that ultimately became classified under amd entwined with work, no longer just a personal investment and no longer enjoyable for its sake within the frame of it being a professional obligation.

Interesting that, apparently, Joe Frazier’s initial, primary goal to lose weight actually led him into boxing.

Guys like Norton, Holyfield etc. are different animals again.

Taking superb conditioning into their fights for that very purpose but also guys who wanted to be and stay in shape anyway….and the isolation of pure vanity to the extreme would be the fighters still popping the PEDs after their careers have finished.

Ultimately, I was only highlighting that maintained pro level fitness can amount to aversion therapy for some.

Even Usyk, who appears to have a very good level of personal investment in staying supremely fit, lamented after the Fury fight the drudge of many, many years of hard training and related deprivations.

Last I saw, Carlos Palomino still dedicated himself to various boxing drills to keep himself fit - and he did still look in terrific shape and in overall good health…certainly appeared a lot younger than his years.

Could Prince Naz be one of the most extreme examples of post career physical blowouts?

Seriously, someone needs to stop feeding that man. He’s no longer the Prince, he’s the royal carriage.

 

yeah Naz appears to have tripled in weight. It’s crazy how bad he looks.

 

In 1980 Ali's doctor diagnosed an underactive thyroid and prescribed thyrolar to deal with it. This famously backfired when Ali took double the recommended dose and weakened himself for the Holmes fight, but if the diagnosis was accurate it explains why he was finding it increasingly difficult to shed weight.

 

He didn't have to chase *****. ***** chased him. It's hard for us mortals to imagine the life and temptations facing any champion, let alone Muhammad Ali. But let's try for a moment. Probably every woman he met wanted a piece of him. Some wanted to mother and feed him. He had a well-known yen for sweets. Whatever he wanted he got. Training is so difficult (and boring); year after year it only gets harder. Ali was fun-loving. It's only natural that he'd get fatter as he aged.

 

Usyk looks juiced. His body doesn't look natural. Isn't it true that athletes from that part of the world have been doing that longer than Westerners?