Could Foreman of the Holyfield Fight Beat Post-Prison Tyson?

I mostly concur here, valid points.

The only thing that's sticking in my mind is how Mike comes straight in. Holyfield didn't, Morrison didn't, Schulz didn't. Stewart learned early not to do that.

Moorer mostly didn't, and was knocked cold when he tried.

That said, my money would be on Tyson. Fun to speculate, though.

 

It sounds like I'm dissing Foreman I'm not BTW I have nothing against him and I actually pick a prime Foreman to beat Tyson.

The issue with old Foreman he was far too slow that's why he had trouble stopping better opposition in his comeback because he could rarely land the follow up punches. He could still land solid jabs and the occasional right hand because he had good timing but the issue is as I said is the follow up punches.

Take Morrison for example he could hit Morrison occasionally with single hard punches but he could never land the follow up why ? Simply too slow. Do you think a prime Foreman would've had that same problem ?

Tyson would simply be way too fast for old Foreman and beat him to the punch consistently. Foreman could land the odd single punch on Tyson but Tyson was never bothered by single hard punches he had a good chin. You had to beat Tyson up round after round to get him out of there and I don't think old Foreman is at the level to do such a thing.

 

I'm with you, and I have to agree Mike wasn't prone to getting one-shotted. Ruddock landed shots flush that weren't terribly far from Foreman level and Mike came back to win.

 

Hey we all have different opinions if you think old Foreman wins that's entirely up to you I'm not trying to change your opinion I'm just giving you my perspective is all.

Nice to see you again BTW been awhile since we talked.

 

I think you’re lumping a lot of different version of Foreman into one guy.

He was an older man and there’s a point where something seemed from my observation to happen with his right shoulder and he couldn’t really get it off … sometime after Moorer. That’s a different version than the one who fought Holyfield.

Against Stewart, I think he got his sinus busted open. There’s basically blood or fluid sloshing around in there and his face puffs up. I don’t think as many fights as George had — young or old — that we can say ‘well if that happened when he fought Stewart, then obviously it would happen if he fought Mike.’ Mike never landed the right shot on the right guy at the right time to cause someone’s face to puff up from internal damage in his entire career, so there’s no reason to assume he would do so just because it happened to George one time — that’s like saying ‘well Tyson’s eyes puffed up against Douglas so anyone with a good jab would puff up Mike’s eyes.’ It ignores every other fight in both men’s careers — which is quite a few fights — to assume that Tyson would puff him up like that.

It’s like looking at Tyson-McNeely a saying every version of post-prison Tyson is that version for the rest of his career. Doesn’t work like that. George was better and worse at various points of his comeback than at others, same with Tyson. (For the record, I think Foreman of Holyfield absolutely slaughters Tyson of McNeely.)

I think George is a difficult fight style-wise for Mike. George was able to do big damage with uppercuts and Tyson (post-prison especially) was susceptible and would, I think, run into them. George was hard to topple off his ballast with his girth and size and strength, and I’m not sure Mike could do it … and a firefight with George isn’t the best way to go — yet it’s the only style Mike has is to come forward. In fact, particularly post-prison, Mike was this: wade in, throw two punches, clinch. He wasn’t particularly elusive and he didn’t use his jab much.

So to me, the answer is yes, it’s entirely possible that Foreman (of Holyfield) beats Tyson (post-prison). The fact that it’s one of the most lucrative fights Tyson could have possibly made and that Foreman openly called for it and Tyson instead feasted on some just-a-guy types when he could have instead made easily twice or three times as much (maybe more) to fight Foreman and yet never tried to make a fight with George tells me something. WOULD Foreman win? Depends on which version — more possible with some versions of George vs. some versions of Tyson than others, but, while I wouldn’t favor him, I also wouldn’t count it out or bet against him.

 

yes, by knockout

 

You’re talking about Tyson right after Douglas. This is the Tyson of several years after that - post-prison.

 

Tyson did indeed try to fight Foreman, on a few occasions actually.

 

Hard to say.
I can still see what Alex Stewart did to George..

 

The issue is Pat as I said is that Foreman never beat anyone close to Tyson's level in his comeback and he struggled immensely vs fighters atleast 2 or 3 levels below Tyson.

You say I'm thinking of different versions of Foreman but is getting hit with over 60 percent of Holyfield’s punches taking a beating a plus for Foreman in this fight ?

If glass chin Morrison can take over 200 punches from Foreman and befuddle him I'm pretty sure Tyson could take single punches from Foreman and beat him to the punch.

When Foreman stepped up in competition in his comeback you did see his severe limitations which would obviously be apparently given his age. And the big issue was as I keep saying he was too damn slow and couldn't land the follow up punches against better opponents.

I don't see a fighter being beaten up by Stewart in later rounds, getting hit with virtually every punch Holyfield threw, and being befuddled by the likes of Morrison. Being able to beat Tyson I'm sorry I don't but that's just my opinion.

 

What post-prison Tyson are we talking here? The Tyson who fought Ruddock? Or the Tyson who fought McBride?

 

You seem to be implying that Morrison stood in front of Foreman and traded the way Tyson would have to do and ‘stood up to 200 punches’ … but he didn’t. He moved in and out and side ot side and avoided exchanging in a way that Tyson never did once in his career and flat-out couldn’t do. If Morrison walks in and trades, I’m quite certain that George would have flattened him. If Tyson had tried to stick and move like Morrison … he just didn’t have that skill set, that footwork. He was awful on the back foot.

Foreman taking everything Holyfield threw at him in my mind weighs in his favor vs. Tyson. Mike himself wasn’t able to stand up to Holyfield and take his stuff for 12 rounds … he got KO’d. And got himself DQ’d in the rematch as a form of quitting because he absolutely knew he couldn’t beat Holyfield or take that beating again.

How can you use the Holyfield fight against Foreman without considering what a washed Evander (as opposed to prime vs Foreman) did to Tyson?

We’re talking post-prison Tyson here. You seem to hold him in higher regard than I do. I think Michael Moorer in 1994 was much better than Tyson in 1995 when he fought McNeely. (And very possibly better than the Tyson who fought Douglas and certainly better than the one who Holyfield mopped the floor with).

Botha outboxed pro-prison Tyson like he was an amateur til he got lazy and got nailed. Post-prison Tyson wasn’t exactly elusive. I think George would hit him and hit him hard. And if George hits you hard (he never really was able to do that against Morrison, but Tyson couldn’t fight like Morrison did in that fight), he’s absolutely got a chance to end it.

 

I don’t recall that. When and what was offered? Can you provide links?

(I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I simply don’t remember that happening. George was champ when Tyson got out of prison, right? And he certainly didn’t try to go after Foreman then. In fact, he says he offered an even split of $100M — $50M each — to Tyson when he was in prison to fight when Mike got out and Tyson turned it down.)

 

Morrison is not some master boxer he's a B class Heavyweight who went life and death with journeyman fighters like Hipp, Puritty, and got splattered in 60 seconds by another unremarkable Heavyweight in Bentt. As i said glass chin Morrison took single punches from Foreman without ever being troubled then Tyson certainly would be able to take single punches from Foreman. Tyson wouldn't have to fight like Morrison because he doesn't have a glass chin he would beat Foreman to the punch in exchanges and beat him up slow sluggers never troubled Tyson.

Well it doesn't for me because if Foreman's getting hit with 60 percent of Tyson's punches he's getting stopped end of if the Stewart fight would've been 12 rounds instead of only 10 i highly doubt Foreman would've made it to the finish line.

Because people have this misconception Holyfield was washed up vs Tyson when this simply isn't true. Holyfield went through a bad patch in his career vs Moorer 1, Bowe 3, with his health issues but he cameback stronger and had two very notable performances vs Tyson 1, Moorer 2, which are arguably two top 5 performances Holyfield has ever had in his Heavyweight career. Holyfield by this time had bulked up and become a stronger smarter fighter weighing close to 220 pounds.

Yes i'm aware of that and i still think Tyson of say the 2nd Bruno fight for example was still a good fighter although not what he once was at his pomp in the 80s. I think had Tyson fought Moorer in 1995 he would've stopped Moorer within 6 rounds i'm not overly high on Moorer's Heavyweight career to be quite honest. I think he was very fortunate to fight arguably the worst version of Holyfield in the 90s who was seriously compromised by his health.

IMO Tyson of 1995/1996 is still a considerably better H2H fighter than Moorer.

You don't need to be overly elusive to beat old Foreman for example Foreman landed over 50 percent of his punches vs Stewart who had been stopped in 1 by Tyson and in 4 by Moorer yet he still went the distance with Foreman.

Savarese stood toe to toe with Foreman and again took over 50 percent of his punches without going down and went the distance comfortably.

And both of those fights were life and death struggles against fighters atleast 2 or 3 levels below Tyson.

 

The comebacking Foreman was at his zenith in 1990 & 1991. After that he started to slowly decline.

Post Prison Tyson had several distinct phases
1995-97: Still young Tyson,with power and speed but this versions infighting and combinations were well below his first incarnation .
98-99: perpetually rusty, in & out of chaos
2000 The peak post prison Tyson his combinations and defence had returned under Tommy Brooks as had activity .His speed though was reduced from 1996.

2002- The desireless old slowing Tyson only able to fight 2 or 3 rounds competitively. His power was also in retreat...Williams and Bride took his best and went on to stop him.

The only version of Tyson post prison who would stand a chance is the 2000 version. Old Foreman though gifted with extraordinary combinations in close couldn't find a decisive fight changing one versus a Holyfield willing to trade in close.

We know Foreman will fight 12 hard rounds but post prison that was always a question mark with Tyson.He faded late versus EH although I have greater sympathy than usual for the volume of headbutts he suffered and loss of blood as a result. I have no doubt Tyson would attack Foreman and even wobble him early.I am also confident Foreman would recover and administer after 3 thrilling rounds a one sided beating en route to a knock out around the 6th.

Interestingly Bill Cayton was saying in 1996 that if he had been in charge of May 1995 Tyson he would have had him have 2 quick tune ups and than put him in with Foreman for the linear title.