The Battle Of The Sugar Rays-Robinson Versus Leonard

At what weight limit? I assume we're talking 147? Unfortunately we've seen very little of Robinson the welterweight and Leonard wasn't his best self at middle.

 

Everything that Hearns does, SRR does. He hits just as hard IMO, can punch destructively fighting on the backfoot and has his vicious streak.

SRL has superior consistency of orthodox defensive manoeuvres and didn't abandon defence as willingly as Robbi did. He will outbox and outspeed Robbi at times, but he doesn't have Robbi's experience, doesn't have Robbi's Arsenal of destructive combination punches. Leonard hits you and blinds you with speed, but Robbi retaliates viciously and has a ferocious body attack which will slow Leonard's legs.

Leonard had to wade through the punches and go to war with Hearns to win - Robbi doesn't have the same issues with durability that Hearns does and over 15, I see Robbi doing enough, punching hard enough and consistently enough to put a beating on Leonard's eyes and keep Leonard honest enough to not have the same success forcing the fight that Leonard had with Tommy.

 

Robinson's chin is too strong. This fight will come down to who is tougher and stronger. Robinson stops Leonard in round 14.

 

The thing about SRL was that he closed extremely well in a lot of cases. Dropped Benitez late and forced a stoppage. Closed well against Duran and swept the championship rounds clearly on my card to make the fight much closer than many others think. Roared back to stop Tommy Hearns.

In SRR, he's facing someone who doesn't really have a significant edge in terms of height and reach like Hearns did, who could be rattled and dropped at the weight and who occasionally allowed himself to take punches that he shouldn't take. He's facing someone who I don't think truly outmatches him in any tangible category, and that means SRL's ability to surge in the closing rounds would come into play,

So, I'll dissent here. If there's one welterweight that I'd pick to defeat SRR in a one off, it's Leonard. In a one off, especially featuring the SRL that faced Hearns in '81, I'm picking Leonard to carry the fight in the closing stages to pull out a close decision.

 

Leonard beats Robinson to the punch more times than not, wins the chess match & shoe-shines his way to victory.

 

Robinson carries far more power than Leonard, in a great boxing match sooner or later Robinson wobbles Leonard and it will be all he can do to stay up right. Robinson by UD

 

Robinson is not going to stop Ray Leonard. SRL was extremely strong and punch resistance, well prepared with ATG hand speed at 147. Granted its SRR, but Ray faced some big punchers and was never stopped. until 15 years after his prime up at middleweight on a 6 year layoff with Camacho. If people even count that fight.. Ray took everything Tommy had to give.

I'm not a SRL fan.. But I will say this , Ray was one of the best most powerful p4p body punchers that is not talked about enough, imo. He hurt Tommy, Floyd Sr, etc going to the body. His body work and leverage was ATG, imo. This fight is going the distance at 147 and its going to be close going to the cards imo

 

I voted Leonard as I think he legitimately can win this. Whether he would win it is another question, but here’s my case for him:

Size:
Robinson was a 5’11 welter in the 1940s - I’m happy to be corrected but I think that made him the tallest (world class) welter ever at that point in history. But Leonard was 5’10. The difference in reach doesn’t appear to be dramatic either so what Robinson was able to do in his own time to contemporary welters had in part to do with clear physical advantages he held. Robinson would not hold those same clear advantages against Leonard.

Power:
Although he didn’t punch as hard at the weight as Robinson, Leonard was a heck of a good puncher and a tremendous finisher as well. He would get Robinson’s respect with his power. I don’t think he would put him down, but he could hurt him enough to make Robinson reconsider his natural aggressivensss. Of course, Robinson could box a bit too…!

Speed:
The is one area where I think Leonard may have a legitimate edge. Robinson was quick, of course, but I think Leonard may have been quicker.

Boxing skills:
Very close. I think Robinson was perhaps more fundamentally solid in the way he would box off the back foot while using his jab to set up his attacks whereas Leonard could do that too (as he did in the early rounds when he met Hearns) but didn’t often need to or choose to. His unorthodoxy might be something that gives Robinson some concerns, though.

IQ:
These are two of the smartest fighters in ring history (inside and outside the ring) but in a one-off bout, no-one prepared better for his opponent than Leonard.

Overall:
Don’t for a second think I’m being flippant about this when I (tentatively) pick Leonard as the winner. Picking anyone over Robinson at his best weight is a big call and Robinson is justifiably favourite over everyone in welter history, including Leonard. But in a one off, not a multi-fight series, if anyone can beat Robinson it’s Leonard.

 

great write up Jel. I agree. Some might think the answer would be Hearns to turn the trick, but clearly Leonard brings a lot more into the ring.
MANY Welters took SRR to the cards and in Title fights as well. The fact is that Leonard was never dropped at 147, and he did face 3 ATG's while they were all Prime at 147, Hearns , Duran , and Benetiz. All with clearly different distinctive styles I might add. ( with Hearns and Duran being very vicious and dangerous punchers )
SRR brings so much more into the ring than Hearns does and theres no dought he has a much more powerful left than Tommy. BUT Hearns does get the nod for the better jab and the right hand power down the pipe , imo. Hearns had 32 fights going into the SRL fight in 81, 30 by KO and only 2 went to the cards, I dont think the sport had seen that type of power KO dominance since Dempsey. I could be wrong thats off the top of my head. But in any event , Ray took everything Tommy had to give, and I will say again many of less went the distance with Robbie. Of course SRR could catch Ray and KO him, but it is unlikely imo

 

Not much of a battle. Robinson flattens him in 6. Easy work.

 

Just off the top there was Welterweight taller than Robinson in his era. George "Sugar" Costner I believe was 6ft tall. Ray fought him twice and KOd him twice in the 1st round.
Costner had a good blend of speed and power to the extent some sportswriters in Ohio gave him the nickname "Sugar". Problem is they didn't ask Ray if it was OK.

Sugar Ray wasn't a nice guy.

 

I agree with you overall Leonard is capable of going the distance with just about anyone. With that said SRR KO% is a little deceiving. At Welterweight he was a frightening puncher. He at times was asked to carry his opponents.

A well known example would be Charlie Fusari in a Welterweight title match. His manager would have never taken that fight if Ray hadn't agreed to not hurt the kid.

A writer ask Robinson one time what his toughest fight was and he immediately said Fusari. Ask why? Robinson said " because I had to fight 15 rounds for me and 15 rounds for him".

 

Initially looking at this matchup I thought this could be a boring or a tactical fight. It would be high level stuff. You have essentially two master boxers with off the charts ring IQ. Then i remembered both these guys were hams. There's no way they would allow it to be boring.

I don't see the edge in speed for Leonard as some. do. It looks about even. I do think Robinson had better movement and footwork punching off his movement. It was seemed effortless for him. Similar to Roy Jones.

Leonard would IMO need to get inside. He was a little better inside than Robinson. I doubt he could get there consistently to win a decision without getting stung. No Welterweight could dismiss Robinson's lefthook. He doubled and tripled them with KO power.

I would say Robinson by decision 9-6 or 9-5-1.