Ranking the most skilled Mexican fighters

That's a good point about Canelo, regarding height and reach. The reason I didn't think too much on that with him is because i've not seen the vast majority of his fights above 160 after the first two Golovkin bouts. My rating of his is really with the 154/160 Canelo in mind, I should have mentioned that.

I did watch the Bivol fight recently, and thought he looked quite bad in it, with really unimpressive integration of his feet and hands, just really out of his element compared to 160, but it's obviously not the weight where he's had his main success since I watched him.

My favourite thing about Canelo is his old-school upperbody movement and slip/counter abilities. That was a major part of what gave GGG so much issues, and I can easily imagine it causing issues for bigger, but less well schooled fighers at 168.

 

Yeah, that's probably how Kuniaki Shibata beat him, considering Shibata had flurries that come out from all angles,and nasty counters..

 

I won't bet John on Saldivar,only Ismael Laguna can bang with Saldivar as a tall man.

 

Imagine what a mistmatch Nunn against Canelo would have been at 160?

Hell, I'd favor Lamar Parks to run Canelo razor close, one way or another.

 

He gave up height and reach to Jacobs, Lara and Trout and height (but not reach) to Golovkin at 154/160. Those were the big ones I just checked, but I suspect he gave up height and/or reach to most of his opponents even at those weights.

For me Bivol's outboxing of Canelo is a bit overstated. For the first 8 he mostly hit gloves, which had a tactical component since it disrupted Canelo's attack and forward momentum but not much of a scoring one. It was first when Canelo tired going in to the last 4 that Bivol pulled away which I think was the plan also. Occupy and frustrate until he tires (which Canelo usually does around that time) and then close strong.

So while a very astute tactical match from Bivol, I don't think he was on top the whole way through as Mayweather was. Very tight defence as always, though, and Canelo hit mostly his arms. He never managed to really get to Bivol.

 

True about size at 154/160, but it really wasn't like Canto's cumulative disadvantages, not even close. He was a broad chunky tank jr middle, not really a small man at all at the weight overall, compared to anyone he fought there. There's also a quality element here in that, while more comparable to Canelo in terms what he was giving up, Saldivar was doing so against enough excellent fighters/divisional borderline greats ( Ramos, Winstone, Laguna, Famechon, Legra), which is what really makes it worth noting. Whereas Canelo being similarly afflicted vs Lara, Trout or Jacobs, none of whom I thought were more than decent solid fighters ( I put them alongside the likes of Minchillo, Braxton, Skouma, McCrory on McCallum's 154 defence list), especially the first two, is just not as interesting. However, a similar level of fighter at 168, that is in general slightly taller/longer again, would get more credit from me, which i'm assuming he's managed. I tuned totally out of the sport by 2018.

I don't know what the consensus thoughts are on the Bivol vs Canelo fight and I didn't actually score it, tbh. He certainly wasn't as helpless looking against clever movement, defence and distance control as he was against Floyd, but that's setting a low bar. It wasn't a one-sided schooling, but seemed very clear. Canelo was plodding and quite slow looking in it, he really struggled to get his offense going in conjunction with his footwork - just being able to jab in behind a few quick shuffle-steps and then sidestep with Bivol, or spring in off the backfoot at an eleven/one o' clock angle while threading a right hand or a good jab as Bivol pivoted would have gone a long way to letting him manage the distance better, but he doesn't seem to have that sort of stuff in his arsenal, not instinctively at least, and his form and reflexes faded/fragmented a lot over the second half of the fight.

 

Great discussion. One thing that I have always noticed: The "Mexican Style" is commonly thought to be that of a guy that marches forward eating punches and winging shots but none of the great Mexican fighters fought like that.

 

Pretty sure most here have it wider than I do. No doubt a clear win for Bivol, though. As I recall I pretty much agreed with the judges' cards.

Yeah, lack of variety in his footwork is a shortcoming he has and it has hurt him in fights like this.

 

I think it was the transcendent brilliance of Bazooka Limon just ended up overshadowing everyone else.

 

Jose Napoles would like to enter the discussion.

 

Is he allowed to enter the discussion though? Napoles was born and raised in Cuba to Cuban parents even if he was adopted by Mexico during his pro career following Castro's ban on boxing. I mean, he was called "El Cubano" by Mexican newspapers for years.