Fury was never that good.

Furys been sound fellas, leave him alone.

 

A nonsense statement. To be undoubtedly in the top 2 all-time heavyweights in British history and still be referred to as "never that good" is utterly ridiculous and shows how fickle people (particularly those who have never set foot in the ring) really are

 

Anthony Joshua was NEVER allowed to fight Deontay Wilder (Facts)

 

So if he was never that good then are Usyks 2 wins over him not that good?

 

I wouldn't say he was never that good, but he was certainly overrated by some elements of the fans and the media. Calling him a top 10 ATG after he beat Whyte was frankly scandalous. He was being called the best of his era without actually having proven it. What's happening now is the comedown from all the hype

 

In that same fair world, he would have got waved off in Wilder1

 

Tyson Fury has had a great career and when the historians will look back at his career if he retired now he would be above AJ.

However if he fights on he can ruin his legacy, in the same way Roy Jones Jr ruined his legacy.

I actually think that Tyson Fury will fight on like Roy Jones Jr did and will ruin his legacy by taking post prime losses.

AJ’s ranking is massively hurt by not facing either Fury or Wilder regardless of the reasons why,

 

I'll bite a bit too, same reasons

While I agree Wilder had an ATG straight right hand, it is fair to say he was (is) considered the most untutored boxer to have held a belt for any length of time. Obviously opinion on this was split, but on any forum including this one, quite clearly, half or more considered Wilder someone who could not box at all, I know it's hyperbole but he really was considered by many to be absolutely useless at the 'art'. But he did have an absolutely devastating equalizer. The Jeff Lacy comparison doesn't work because Lacy was a great boxer, compared to Wilder he is like SRR.

Which brings us to Fury and the Heavyweight division more generally in post-Klitchko era.... The issue is really with the division itself. None of these guys (generalising), if magically shrunk down to middle weight, would trouble the top 100 list. It is a power division, where the only true skill is smaller modern heavys avoiding the clubbing charge of 270 pounds of blubber/muscle. Of this, Usyk is the very best of the era.

All heavies are over-rated in a certain sense. AJ with his lack of am experience, post-Ruiz safety first - he is what Fury unfairly said he was, a big stiff idiot. Fury's record is not good and I don't know what to say other than look at it. Let's look it it:

Nov 15 (a full 9 years ago): Fury outpoints a forty year old Klitchko who had a horrible camp and was aged, going through a divorce etc. It was an unwatchable fight. People reference it quite a lot. I doubt anyone has rewatched it. Stinker.

Followed by 'time out the ring'. Hmm.

Wilder x3. Caveats as above. This was personal brilliance from Fury, someone somewhere should be thanked for getting him this opportunity. Maybe wilder himself with a poor cherrypick. Fury Wilder 2 was a classic, but can't be divorced from the caveats above either. Either way, Fury could have been stopped easily in 1, and on another night Wilder might have won 3. Clearly this trilogy is Fury's high point. But the caveats. He did not beat Lennox/Holyfield/Bowe over 3. But Wilder.

This is interspersed with Tom Schwarz, Otto Wallin, Pianeta, and Sefer Seferi. I'm sorry but I can't pretend with anyone that these are top heavyweight fights. I just wont do it myself. So from Dec 18, through to Apr 22 - It's solid 'Wilder'.

Apr 22 - Dillian Whyte. The strangest fight I've seen in some ways, a couple rounds of nothing then the stoppage. After an even stranger buildup in which Whyte just didn't participate in promoting the fight at all. I consider it a strange outlier really, but either way it's dillian Whyte who made noise in the UK on IFL for a few years but was not considered a top heavyweight, irrespective of whatever rankings might have occasionally said.

Dec 22 - Chisora. whatever.

Oct 23 - Ngannou. This was a disaster. Fury lost that fight imo, even technically and this was a robbery.

May/Dec 24 - Usyk. x2 losses. Similar to AJ really. The cruiserweight (who would have a been a big heavy in the 60's/70's) brought skill up to the heavy division that negated both AJ and Fury, showing the limitations of the top division. Usyk, I imagine, is a horrible opponent to fight. The kind of guy who you always get the sense you should have beaten. I can see why AJ and Fury took the L's so hard. As AJ asked him post fight: "HOW... How did you beat me?". Exactly that. Usyk would feel like the kind of guy you lose to but know you're better in most departments, except for one - how to stay away from heavy shots and land medium-impact scoring damage on the lumbering opponent. Usyk struggled with Chisora, a comparable height heavy. I think he would again with smaller heavies. The 6'7 ish chumps he has worked out. When I was younger I was great at tennis, got to Wimbledon youth semi-finals (doubles) and quite far in singles. I always struggled against one player in particular, who I was probably better at in all departments in a head-to-head. However the annoying xxxx figured out how to negate - just enough - these advantages to eek out a W in more than one important competition at that level. So well done him. And well done Usyk.

Oh any Fury ought to have lost to McDermott back in the day, so shout out to him.

What are we left with? 40 years old Klitchko and Wilder (with caveats). A couple of generous decisions (Ngannou, McDermott). And, I have to line up with Eddie Hearn before everyone became pals, some of the worst 'filler fights' I can think of. AJ wins on resume absolutely hands down and twice on Sunday. Sorry.

 

I think with Fury we will never know how good he could have been, due to the layoff and then being contractually obligated and tied up for three years with the Wilder trilogy. If I remember correctly, Tyson had signed to fight AJ, and Wilder's team took him to court to force the third fight, resulting in an 18-month gap between fights two and three. Along with the 15-month gap between the first and second fights.

Plus, with no hiatus, there would have been no marking time fights against the likes of Schwatz and Wallin, nor the comeback fights against Seferi and Pianteta.

After the third Wilder fight, Whyte was mandatory, Chisora and Ngannou were money fights, and Usyk was a combination of Saudi riches and legacy. I think we will get the AJ fight next year, but for me that has become like Brook v Khan and has lost its lustre but will clearly sell out Wembley.

It will be a travesty to British sport if the fight is made and held in Saudi.

I also don't like the Jeff Lacy comparison with Wilder, as prior to fighting Calzaghe, he was considered a beast, and even Joe feared him to the point he had to be talked out of pulling out by Enzo.

Which highlights the mental aspect of the sport at the elite level.

He then puts on the dazzling performance of his career, and the Lacy aura was gone, and confidence-wise, Jeff was never the same, plus opponents never respected or feared facing him as they once did.

After the three fights with Fury, Wilder was done, especially after the third fight, when he could have easily quit at several points during the bout; instead, he went out like a champion on his shield, with his tank absolutely empty.

The Helenius comeback just showed what happens if you get overconfident against someone with the power Wilder has, but the Parker and Zhang fights showed that at 38 and with 47 professional fights behind him, he wasn't the force he once was, and his aura wasn't what it once was. Hence why I compare him to Julian Jackson, who, after he lost back-to-back fights to McClennan, the fear and respect opponents had for him prior to entering the ring had vanished, and Jackson was pretty much half-blind at that point.

Hopefully Wilder retains all of his faculties into later years, but that third fight with Fury was a war of attrition for both of them, and neither would have been the same thereafter. The punch that caused the first Fury knockdown shifted his entire body from the top down, and with more time on the clock, it could have been a very different outcome, much like the first fight.

Lastly, I was one of the few who had Fury beating McDermott in the first fight, and if I remember correctly, the punch stats had Fury up at the end.

 

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Very insightful video from Gman, I think he hits the nail on the head

 

Wilder is no Jeff lacy, he will go down in the hall of fame due to his long reign and being blockbuster, ko’s etc and ko’ing guys who outweighed him massively. He weighs less than usyk.

Fury will go down in hof due to his character and charisma and being quite possibly the best white hw ever. His fights with wilder will assist but his reign of 3defenses is nothing hof worthy.

 

L

Lol. We shall see in the future. I’m 90% confident Wilder will for his record and ko’s.
I’m 80% confident fury will for his personality and drawing power since wilder 1.
I’m 85% confident AJ will for his drawing power and input to uk boxing.