Past Heavyweights Who Beat Usyk

I think when looking at ATG status you have to look at the manner of victories, and my goodness, Mikey cleaned house, didn't he? Usyk has not once looked dominant at heavyweight, not from beginning to end, and I don't think he ever will. A great, great fighter. But guys like Tyson and Holyfield, to use his own phrase, would t leave him alone!!

 

Outstanding post.

I agree entirely with everything you’ve written.


Boxing is a stand alone sport, with no continuous progression. And we can actually prove this with evidence.

There’s a lot of ignorance around the modern athlete being superior, due to sports science etc. And your analogy of AJ-Ruiz to prove otherwise is priceless.


I’ve had this conversation a thousand times on here.

Yes, sports science can aid a fighter.

Yes, nutrition is obviously important.

But at the end of the day, it’s how the fighters match up on the night stylistically.

And it will always be that way.

Which means that any fighter from any era, could beat any other on any given night.


Regarding AJ-Ruiz:


AJ has very respectable sprinting times on the track.

Very impressive lifts in the gym.

He has a sports scientist on call.

A masseuse.

A chef.


Yet on just 5 weeks notice, he was ran over by an obese guy who literally eats chocolate and burgers in camp.


That right there tells you everything you need to know.


Boxing doesn’t keep progressing, and there’s many fighters of the past who be able to beat today’s guys.

But I like I said previously, even if it was an irrefutable fact that today’s guys were superior technically and in terms of fitness/athletic performance, then it would still be irrelevant anyway.

Because even if it was true, not every modern fighter would be able to have beaten every older fighter.

Why?

Because like you’ve noted, in boxing, the athletically superior guy doesn’t always win.

Even the more skilled opponent doesn’t always win.

Neither does the biggest, the strongest, the heaviest or the fastest.

The fights are simply decided by how the two guys match up on the night stylistically.


Usyk is a genius. But he would always struggle with a small, fast, pressure fighter.

 

That's a bit unfair TBH.

Spinks was the lineal Heavyweight champion and had never been legitimately knocked down in his career it's a great win in the manner in which Tyson won.

Holmes went on to become a top 10 Heavyweight in the 90s again Tyson is the only one to ever stop him in over 70 fights its a good win in context.

Ruddock was a highly ranked one punch KO artist.

Berbick was coming off beating undefeated Thomas for the title who had been undefeated for over 7 years.

I mean we can all pick apart a resume if we want.

Fury = Past his prime almost lost to an MMA fighter 2 fights before.

Joshua = Beaten up by tubby Ruiz hasn't had a real significant win in years and was recently dismantled by Dubois.

 

Great post.

Then take into account his age, his size, and the manner in which he beat most of them.

 

The issue i have is when a recent fighter gets a big win people have a tendency to discredit older fighters to make the current fighter look better and i just don't get that.

Usyk has a very good resume the strength to his resume is beating considerably bigger fighters than himself there's no denying that.

But Tyson went 37-0 in the 80s with 33 stoppages he beat two fighters who are considered great Spinks, Holmes, both fighters had over 100 fights between them and over 30 championship fights and were only stopped once in their career by Tyson. Yes Spinks was better as a Light Heavyweight and Holmes was past his prime but the manner in which Tyson won these fighters is very impressive which has to be taken into account.

I also don't understand discrediting some of Tyson's opposition like Ruddock for example was a top 3 ranked Heavyweight and considered one of the most dangerous contenders around at that time with legitimate 1 punch KO power. If Usyk would of took on an opponent like Ruddock now and beat him convincingly everyone on this forum would been singing Usyk's praises.

 

I think the only boxer I'd make favourite over Usyk would be Mike Tyson, he's a bad matchup for him but guys like Wlad, Lennox Lewis, Foreman are good matchups for Usyk

 

Frazier, Bowe, Ibeabuchi, Liston, Tyson, Ali, Wladimir, Lewis, are all capable of beating Usyk at their peak.

I don’t see how you think a prime Lewis is a good style match up for Usyk he's leagues ahead of the current Fury with 1 punch KO power.

Wladimir schooled Byrd easily twice who was a talented defensive southpaw.

 

I wouldn’t say that they would have been good match ups for him.

 

Everything I said is exactly factual. Some of them were good opponents, but as a group they were nowhere near what you are making them out to be.

 

Most were in bad state of deterioration when Tyson got them, and that is FACT.

 

Styles make fights is very true, but there is no way to quantify the ceiling of where the 'creme de la creme' fighters rank over time vs other fighters. Would Breidis have beaten Marciano - impossible to say, but I'd give him a damn good shout? The main point I was meaning in terms of athletes is that the ceiling of what an athlete can realistically be capable of gets higher with the progression of time, and by extension the creme de la creme hit a higher ceiling than what previous generations were capable of.

But maybe Boxing is sufficiently different that is not such a big factor - but I do think it is relevant for fighters like Usyk that 'live the life' and are a student of the game soaking up everything that has come before.

 

Yes but I think you were harsh and what I'm saying is anyone can discredit a resume if they try hard enough including Usyk's resume.

 

I'd pick
Ali
Fraizer
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Wladimir Klitschko

Usyk would certainly be hard for all of them and I could conceivably see Usyk beating any of them

I think Foreman, Holmes, Bowe, Vitali and even a younger Tyson Fury (yes I know) would give Usyk tough fights and could he him on their night. Although I wouldn't pick them

 

Ali, prime Tyson, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, Foreman, Frazier, Bowe, Holyfield, any of those could have beat him, he fought a fat fvk and is not that he dominate dthe fight, you could have given the fight to fury and people wouldn't be complaining. The guy beat joshua (not on the level of the one I have mentioned) and fury is an undisciplined boxer that could have done more with his God given talent, still, usyk is a good fighter in his own right, but just not go overboard.

 

None. Usyks IQ is too high. He’s playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.