What short (under 5'9") WWs would you favor over Hearns?

When you let loose you sure let loose old mate. Hearns was still on his toes boxing in the last two rounds of the fight. Head shots did him in. If he was wrecked by body shots do you think he'd still be gliding around that late in a fight? You're negativity toward Hearns is up there with any I've ever seen in here, or anywhere really. You had him lucky to beat Randy Shields for heavens sake now Harold Weston's beating him despite being punched into permanent retirement. He couldn't even see when it was stopped. He was leading Cuevas as well when he was pulled due to saying his jaw was broken. It wasn't. He later claimed if he knew it wasn't broken he would have won as Cuevas was tiring. Yeah right.

On top of this Weston was 10 fights prior to a still learning Hearn's even fighting for the title and Harold came in 2 1/2 pounds over even with a day before weigh in after Steward made allowances. Sport Illustrated - "The outcome of the fight wasn't in doubt". Steward had actually told Hearns to slow down those last two rounds as the altitude and heat were affecting him and easing back for a bit was beneficial. Was Hearns as impressive as he wanted to be? No. Was he effective and was it a great learning fight as hoped for? Absolutely. Harold was an extremely good fighter.

 

An excellent post John.

Brilliant.

Nothing more to say John.

 

Sir, you put words into my mouth, I said Hearns was a great fighter my opinions on any other fighter is irrelevant to the thread… but if you have questions about why I think what I do about those fighters discuss it? it’s a forum after all… otherwise if you don’t like listening to alternate opinions just put me and anyone else on ignore till you only hear things you like?

 

Check out Patrick Ford right before he got knocked out by Pedroza. My father came into the room, I told him to stick around for a few moments because Ford was about to get knocked out, and he scoffed, "He's still on his toes, what do you mean he's about to be knocked out?" Hell JT, Marcel never came off his toes against Duran, but it's a punching sport, and Roberto was doing all the punching when the referee stopped it with something like 19 seconds left.

Aw, please don't make me dig out 17 years of posts from five different user accounts praising Tommy!

And don't make me also dig out where I posted more than once that it was HEARNS who initially got cut from the repeated clashes of heads in that one. Yes, Randy came in with a bout altering injury, but all those head butts could just as easily have cost Tommy the title and resulted in a Leonard-Shields unification rematch. (BTW, I spoke to MMH about Antuofermo II. He wasn't happy that a butt decided that outcome, and relieved their giant clash of heads didn't cost him the rematch with Vito.)

Weston went into permanent retirement due to a torn right retina, which Harold has always said was from a thumb.

This isn't about weight but who under 5'9" would be favored over him at WW, and we haven't even discussed Armstrong.

SI's had some great authorship and legendary coinages, but it's not always gospel. (Granted, still much better than BoxWRECK however.)

Tommy was still stamina compromised at 147, a seven round fighter really according to Shields (who correctly predicted in an article published before SRL-Hearns I that Ray would win, and Randy was their only common opponent at the time), couldn't clinch to save his life (I was so proud that Tommy later became so proficient at clinching he could actually get himself penalized for it).

Hearns was extremely inexperienced and immature physically to be invincible against absolutely anybody under 5'9" tall at WW. Before he turned 18, the 5' 6-1/2" Langford had already gone the Championship Distance with the Old Master.

Going back in time, Tommy Ryan was never beaten at WW, Barbados Joe's already been cited, Kid Lewis and Jack Britton were both under 5'9" and Walker would've laid Hearns out anytime he felt like it.

Y'know what? When I go back in boxing history, factoring the obscene experience of too many physically mature ATGs to count who moved way up from far below 147 to win the title at WW, might as well merely compile a list of those under 5'9" who ought to be favored over Hearns. Tommy's my GOAT Champion at 154, but he wasn't even the world's best WW in 1980.

 

You know, I'll go with Emile griffith, Strong as an Ox has shown that he's capable of giving a good fight against an ATG with similar attributes to Hearns in Carlos Monzon fought and beat dick tiger while conceding 10lbs. And he was 5'7" he was exceptionally versatile on top of it all so he could change gameplay if something isn't working out. Though I'd still favor hearns. I feels he's the best option who meets the criteria.

 

It was being called a fool that irritated me. Everyone is welcome to their opinion.

 

I'd favor the Duran who beat Leonard in Montreal, that beast bore no resemblance to the Duran that Hearns ko'ed.

 

Honestly - I might’ve wrongly read your messages tone as condescending , if that wasn’t your intent I am sorry.

 

I completely agree, good analysis

 

No problem.at all.

 

Hearns was put into trouble by punches to the head vs SRL, usually started by single punches. He was hurt as early as the sixth round and after a rough couple of rounds regrouped. Leonard put plenty of time and effort into the body but Hearns wore it surprisingly well for someone so skinny. It was his average chin more than anything that caused his downfall and average stamina as well. He tired in the odd fight where he barely took a punch to the body.

Crikey, imagine the amount of negative posts to those few positive!!!

I posted extensively on the Randy bout not long back. Randy made some incredible claims and they were hardly rare. Weston had a faor penchant for them as well. Some boxers live in denial more than others.

Yeah like he said he didn't know his jaw wasn't broken when he quit against Cuevas and he said he beat Benitez and he had Hearns right where he wanted him if not for the thumb and he should have fought hard in the last round vs Chu Chu. He said a lot of things, just like Randy. Many or even most of them do. Sometimes it's even credible, but most times it isn't.

Do you take into account all the damage caused by a serial thumber like Holmes? Do you give Hearns any leeway for breaking his hand in the 1st vs Hagler? Do you give credit to Stewards claims Hearns came in too light for Leonard after doing things he wasn't supposed to? How about the infamous leg massage claims? Or do you just believe the claims you want to? There's no end of them out there.

I quite enjoy S.I.'s articles. Fighters excuses and claims are not gospel either, quite the opposite usually.

And there's another Shields claim. He even got the winner right, as did about 50% of people. Don't forget Randy always claimed he beat SRL, and that Ray got a hometown decision. Do you believe that too or only the Hearns claims? The judges had Ray a very comfortable winner.

I have little interest in trying to imagine how guys like Walcott would go when we have nothing to appraise except words. He might not last 60 seconds. Walker would be a good chance but to claim he would've laid Hearns out anytime he felt like it is just silly.

Don't forget Starling had a supposedly competitive spar with Hearns and claimed to get the better of it before Hearns shattered his jaw lol. No doubt he'd pummel Hearns too without that little bit of bad luck.

No doubt there's be dozens and dozens of them

 

Some people have an awfully low opinion of Tommy at welter.

I really can't understand it.

 

Me too.

 

A rapier jab, lightening hand speed, superb boxing ability and arguably the most devastating right in boxing history.

At welter it could have razed a small European village.

Was 32-0 with 30 KO's before The Showdown.

Nah - he was just not very good.

 

Mickey Walker like Hearns was able to fill out and fight at higher weights. Was durable enough to take shots for heavyweights. Was aggressive and very capable of getting inside of longer fighters. Hit damn hard.

If any short WW is giving Hearns problems, I feel like it would be him.