Is Jimmy Bivins run from 1943-1945 one of the best ever?

Cristoforidis was ranked highly at LHVY for their 3rd fight at 168.5lbs , but he scaled 163 for their first 2 fights,[ Bivins was only a pound over middleweight in one ,and inside the limit for the other himself,]. At 32 Bivins could still scale 177lbs ,and many of his wins were over men who were lhvy's for the better part of their careers.He has wins over some legitimate good heavies but no signature ones that I can see. Receiving 11 lbs from Charles he lost,and Moore conceding 9lbs in one fight and 11lbs in another beat him. Maybe a great lhvy ,but one of the pack at heavyweight.

 

-RING has Christoforidis as #2 LHW in 1940 when he met Bivins for their first fights. Bivins was a top 10 MW, moving up to fight him.

-You keep clinging to that one fight where he was stlll in HW range against a top 10 HW. It's his lowest weight in an 11 year peroid, its an abnormality. He's over 180 for 60 of his final 65 fights in this decade run. Making me sound like a broken record.

-This has been shown not to be true.

-Mauriello for the Duration Title, Rematching Pastor, dominating #1 contender Murray in the rematch, dominating Bettina are acceptable signature wins.

-One of the pack after his return from the military, maybe. A good pack at that.

 

Actually, I'm not clinging to anything and ,if you
had approached things diffferently we would not be where we are now.

 

I say again that you are arguing out if both sides of your mouth mongoose. You want us to believe that Bivins was a natural hw (he wasnt) and at the same time that this natural hw notching wins over smaller fighters doesnt detract from these wins and that somehow these wins shouldnt alter our perception of the division as depleted at the time or Bivins resume at hw (based on wins against non hws) or his supposed standing as the face of the division during. i say b.s. firat: when Bivins fought joe louis yrs later he weighed 180 and looked soft. he could have easily lost five pounds. second: i say again, fighters more credit for beating bigger guys and less credit for beating smaller guys. its an almost universal fact in this sport and to ignore illustrates only ignorance or bias. Example: jake lamottas performances against srr are legendary. Robinson is considered arhuably the greatest fighting machine in history. nice performances by lamotta every time but they havr an asterix by them because of lamottas weight advantage. finally: if young and all of these newly minted and largely unproven contenders were the face of the division and not just marking time til the war was over how many of them appeared in newsreels, and on the covers of national/international magazines during this period and how often? no? i didnt think so. Now compare that with joe louis who was dominating media witjout even defending his title and tell me bivins title wasnt meaningless.

 

It was an incredible yet contradictory run.

Whilst he did rule the roost, you must remember it was only due to the champions recess.

What Bivins did, essentially was clean out the remaining contenders, like Liston before his eventual title shot.

It's a shame that the row experienced their seemingly unbeatable primes during the wae years, but it's also quite plausible that they only experienced this prime because of the war years. Would Bivins have ever beaten Louis? Hard to say imo but my gut feeling is no, he wouldn't have done.

Not to take away from his incredible run but just bear in mind he never once dethroned the king.

 

Not true. He did beat LHW Champ Gus in a non title match before he left for the war. So he was the #1 HW behind Louis and the man at LHW. He didn't dethrone the LHW King officially but he whipped him into submission.

 

Beating a champion in a non title match does make you the man. Ask Guilio Rinaldi or any other number of guys who won a non title fight only to lose when all the marbles were on the table.

 

That's rubbish. Gus was scared to defend the belt against Bivins and got whipped so bad in the non-title match, his team vowed they would never face him again. What you are suggesting is horse****, otherwise Gus wouldn't have ignored the NBA's ruling and ran away with the belt. It was bull**** and fans shouldn't support it, but you know...


Jimmy Bivins, hard-punching Cleveland negro, saw his hopes of a light-heavyweight title match with Gus Lesnevich fade today despite - or perhaps because of - the decisive whipping he gave the champion in a non-title 10 round bout last night. Despite the NBA edict that Bivins be given a title match "within 60 days" if he should win, Lew Diamond, manager of Lesnevich, effectively spiked any future bout. Bivins battered Lesnevich into the ropes with a heavy right in the 1st round - a punch acknowledged by Gus to have slowed him throughout the fight. Bivins dumped Lesnevich on the seat of his trunks in the 2nd round, but the champion got up before a count and successfully evaded Bivins' attempts to land a knockout punch." -United Press

• Unofficial UP scorecard - 7-2-1 Bivins

Post fight comment

• "Gus joins the Coast Guard March 15th. He won't be able to fight for two months while he's in training. And when he does fight, he'll defend his title against a serviceman in a General MacArthur benefit boxing show. There isn't a chance of Lesnevich fighting Bivins again." -Lew Diamond, Lesnevich's manager

So you support this ****? A Champion only fighting the #1 contender in a non-title match and than refusing to ever defend the belt against him because he kicked his ass so bad he knew he wouldn't stand a chance? You really think Bivins would choke in a rematch? Gus and his people certainly didn't think he would. Don't be stupid.

 

The short answer is yes.

The long answer is yyyyyyyeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssss.

From contemporary reports I've read, his decline was attributed to either his tenure in the service &/or marital difficulties that emerged around that time.

According to this article from March 1947,
"since his wife sued him for alimony a couple of years ago he appears to be on the downward trail."

That footage is back on YT. he reminds me a bit of a less flashy Luis Rodriguez - exceptional reach for his size, can box/move effectively from the outside, & ties up/smothers opponents @ close range like an octopus.

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Agreed. Bivins run during this period, along with Tommy Gibbons from debut until 1920, are probably the most 2 under appreciated runs in all of boxing history, as well as two of the greatest.

 

Yeah, he's pretty much just long Rodriguez.

 

That could possibly be the result of being about 10-ish lb lighter than what we typically see in other films, in which he's typically fighting as a hw.

 

Archie would always contend and say it was a cheap shot (and it was) that beat him. I do think it’s the most underrated run at hw. His lack of power just makes him very forgettable and hard to give the nod to in fantasy fights. Extremely tricky fighter with his reach.