Is Jones an ATG?

I'd make a similar argument against Calzaghe. In my opinion, ATG status shouldn't be based on coulda and woulda, but on actual accomplishments. Jones (and Calzaghe) both fall seriously short on actual accomplishments.

One more comment: Roy Jones, in my opinion, is typical of the modern low-risk/high-reward type of fighter. The strategy is as follows:

• Avoid tough challenges.
• Move through various weight divisions, cherry-picking titles from the most vulnerable "champions".
• Avoid defending any single title for too long, otherwise you'll eventually be forced to take a tough fight.
• Fight "name" fighters only after they've already been beaten and are on the downslide.
• Blame the lack of real challenges on the opposition's unwillingless to reasonably negotiate, or the lack of popularity of the potential opponent.
• If you do actually fight a tough fight, get everything in your favor; locale, size of gloves, referee, special weight limits, etc.

Ray Leonard was a pioneer in this area. Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather are damn good at it (although so blatant that many can see through their facades.) Oscar DeLaHoya is probably the best at it.

 

I have qualms with putting Joe Calzaghe's name in the same sentence/paragraph as Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Yes, Roy was hounded for not always fighting the best fights (even though most of the best fights out there for him were against guys he had already defeated, and quite soundly too). Still, his ACCOMPLISHMENTS and RESUME is ten times that of Joe C (so the Joe C resume bashing is in actual fact NOTHING like the Roy Jones resume bashing. They're on different LEVELS). Same can be said for Mayweather and OBVIOUSLY Ray Leonard

 

Excellent post. I could not have put it better myself. Jones took the path of least resistance his whole career. He handpicked 98% of his opponents. A classic example of Glass Jaw Roy's handpicking is the Ruiz fight and the Johnson fight (Johnson was the IBF Champion) which backfired on him bigtime.

 

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LOL Roy's resume is NOWHERE near that of SRL not even close.

 

Never said so.

But Roy and Sugar Ray Leonard are allowed to have their names put together. It just makes sense.

Joe C, however, does not belong with the other 3.

 

I agree about Joe C not belonging with the other 3 and neither does Jones. SRL has a VERY deep resume.

 

Yes he does.

And yes, Roy could have a much better resume. But when people talk about Roy taking the path of least resistance, and then talk about Joe's safety first career, while it's the same TOPIC, it's not the same at all. Roy's resume, regardless of whether it's in the same vicinity as SRL's, is MUCH greater than Joe's C. It's a matter of LEVELS.

Same applies for Floyd Mayweather. Yes, he too has taken the path of least resistence. But he has some names on his resume that simply put it on a whole other level (or levels) than Joe C's.

 

you might be right about jones but to say leonard ducked challenges is ****ing RIDICULOUS... leonard was the type of guy that went looking for challenges, but he did it in an intelligent way, he put himself in a position to SUCCEED... thats not the same as ducking challenges

wilfred benitez is a challenge
i would say fighting an undefeated thomas hearns is a challenge
fighting duran who had 1 frickin loss at the time was a challenge
fighting duran again after essentially getting your ass handed to you for your first loss
came out of virtual 4 year layoff to take on the undisputed middleweight undefeated champ hagler and you can say hagler was faded but leonard was past it already at that point as well
was set to face don curry who many considered leonards successor as p4p #1 until curry suffered brutal ko to mccallum
fought frickin TERRY NORRIS who was an absolute beast at the time and considered unbeatable by most people when you're way past it, granted he lost but thats a huge challenge

the only reasonable name you could say he ducked was aaron pryor, a fight leonard probably wouldve won anyway
for both calzaghe and jones that list is huge

 

My dear Rico (The Glass Jaw Exposer):

Think of it like Johnson said of a dog walking on his hind legs (Samuel, not Glenncoffe):

One doesn't marvel at how poorly the dog does it, but rather that he does it at all..


It scarcely matters which heavywt he picks. Roy was a middlewt.


Ruiz beat Holy and was a world champion heavywt boxer, regardless of whether he was the best one ever.

Roy was a former 160 lber.

It was a ****ing amazing feat to do what he did.


Only a misguided, grasping-for-straws hater like yourself could put any other spin on it.

 

I didn't put them together in terms of accomplishments. I fact, I didn't put them together at all. I listed Leonard, Jones, Mayweather, and DeLahoya as fighters who personify the low-risk/high-reward type of fihter, and who seek to inflate their accomplishments through manipulation of public perception.

Calzaghe doesn't quite fit here, if only because he never fooled as many people as the aforementioned group.

If I was to list them as far as actual accomplishments, the list would look like this (with spacing intentional to indicate relative distance apart):

Leonard















Mayweather

Jones
DeLaHoya





Calzaghe

 

I think Jones beating Ruiz proved he is one of the best P4P in history capturing HW title.
If he beat Michalczewski at that time he would certainly shut off all the critics that he
isn't the best LHW. Especially if he beat the best contender in Tarver right after Ruiz.

If Jones retire after that he would be a TRUE LHW champion with both ring and linear
titles and all the belts. Also most importantly his chin was not explored at that time, so he
would retired as a boxer who never been really beaten, and with no serious flaws to be seen ....
simply superior in any department and rightful candidate for #1 ATG.

Of course this might be debatable but with his resume, natural talent and no flaws
(no chin issues at that time) he would be competitive against any other #1 ATG candidate
including former HW ATG like Ali and all older fighters who were not as massive as today HW.

 

yes it was so amazing that another former Middleweight beat Ruiz also. Ruiz is ****ing awful.

 

:admin :yikes :huh YES

 

Yea, Toney was shite wasn't he, as was Bernard Hopkins. :roll: He wanted Holyfield as well but Holyfield was having none of it.

 

Yes, I would say he is, no question.