Better resume Ali vs Mayweather

Ali nearly 84% the votes. To be fair that's about what I expected.

 

126 is only a few pounds below 130 though so a pretty minimal difference. Don't see how that would make much difference

 

Guererro was a full sized welterweight and a big lightweight. He's underappreciated.

 

Fair enough. I would probably have Fury more like 15-20ish though.

 

If you value title wins then why is Fury above Foreman ? Not to mention Fury has far lesser wins against ranked opposition.

Destorying undefeated Frazier ----> boring 12 round sparring session vs Old Wladimir.

Winning Lineal title at age 45 vs Moorer ----> Wilder

Norton ----> Whyte

Lyle ----> Chisora

Peralta ----> Cunningham

 

So do Ali's, and I'm anything but a Mayweather fan.

⨀ Liston was in his early 40's when he fought Ali. He went into their first fight carrying a shoulder injury and barely trained. Took a dive in the second.
⨀ Patterson went into the Ali fight with an injured sacroiliac joint. Plus he wasn't a natural HW.
⨀ Frazier only had a left hook and he was partially blind in one eye since the late 60s.
Frazier beat him in their 1st fight, when both were somewhat at their best or near it.
In their 2nd battle, Ali kept holding Frazier’s head throughout the entire fight (a foul but never any warnings much less point deductions from the referee) thereby taking away Frazier’s inside fight game, and got the decision.
In the 3rd fight, Frazier came in about seven pounds over his best weight and consequently ran out of gas. And Ali was about to quit in the 15th round. Had Eddie Futch not thrown the towel, Ali wouldn’t have gotten up and subsequently would have lost the fight.
⨀ Norton was a good boxer, but not an ATG and certainly not a very hard puncher. He is overrated simply cause he beat Ali and always had Ali’s number, giving him hell in all 3 fights.
Ali's fights with Norton could have been 3 losses. Broken jaw in the first fight, a decision in the second encounter that was “biased” for Ali since it set up a rubber match. In their final fight, it was dead even going into the fifteenth round. Norton took that round clearly but again, the nod went to Ali.
Bottom line is, where he not a favorite of the press and public, Ali could very well have more losses than wins against Norton.
⨀ Foreman is the only win Ali deserves credit. But the again, he tricked Foreman, who punched himself out. And Foreman never landed any clean punches.
To quote you: "That's 4 of his top 5 wins".

He's not underrated, he's overrated.

 

Lol at only win

 

- Buster Mathis was badly injured by a feral dog before their fight, and doctors had to remove his left leg. This greatly hampered his mobility against Ali.
- Jean-Pierre Coopman was actually two small children, Jean and Pierre, hidden under a trenchcoat to look like a grown man. Although Ali fanboys try to give him credit for beating two opponents at once, only one of them, the one on top (I believe it was Pierre), was able to throw punches. The other kid just served as the legs.
- Who the hell is Doug Jones?
- At 7'1" and 275 pounds, Wilt Chamberlain was one of the most imposing physical specimens Ali ever fought. Oh, wait, he didn't, the coward.
- Bob Foster was instructed by bodyguards for the Nation of Islam to throw his fight against Ali. Unfortunately he mistook them for the Temptations and asked if they could sing "Just My Imagination" for him, to which they decided to break Foster's thumbs in response. This made him reluctant to throw punches when he fought Ali in Stateline.
- Henry Cooper was from England.
- The Joe Bugner who fought Ali the second time was not the real Joe Bugner. Rumors were that Aussie Joe had paid a nightclub dancer to get plastic surgery to match Bugner's appearance and take his place for that fight, while the real Joe Bugner was on the run from police for unspecified crimes involving him, a shipment of industrial-grade toilet paper, and Buckingham Palace. The nightclub dancer imitating Bugner was paid to take a dive.

 

5-2-1 in title fights. The Wlad win is better than anything Foreman has and I prefer the Wilder trilogy over Norton and and Moorer. More importantly, he didn’t get stopped by Ali and lose to Jimmy Young. He lost by a point or two in each Usyk fight, proving his worth even though he might be a couple steps from his peak.

 

"He tricked him."

 

Foreman is 5-3 in title fights compared to Fury's 5-2-1, so why does the latter get a pass ? Especially given how the former was over 40 for 2 of the 3 losses.

Wlad was 40 years old, had been active for 19 years with almost 70 fights under his belt, and couldn't let his hands go against Jennings in his previous fight, just like with Fury. Method of victory wasn't exactly the most inspiring thing ever, either (Seeing as you give points to method of victory in according to your Tyson/Holmes thread). It's not a better win than utterly destroying a slightly past it Frazier, who would still go on to beat Bugner, a declining Ellis and a prime Quarry, while also running Ali close in 2 fights.

I'm so sorry about that, is there anything we can do ? I doubt any Wilder win belongs over Norton's win over Quarry, and given Wilder's lack of depth, I don't think the Ali win requires a mention. Becoming the oldest Heavyweight champion ever against an undefeated lineal champion is also better than beating an alphabet champ whose title reign consisted of 80% unranked fighters.

Agreed, he almost got stopped by your #10 ATG who was 40 lbs smaller, instead of your #1 ATG who was roughly the same size, and he lost twice instead of once. It's an important distinction between the two.

True, he lost to Ngannou.

 

My post shouldn't have you that far in your feelings. Three of his five title wins are absolutely excellent, and he performed well in the draw to Wilder and loses to Usyk.

Wlad who destroyed Pulev, beat Jennings, and lost to Fury beats any Frazier. Size matters.

 

They're facts and not feelings my friend, your refusal to respond to them proves that. And please don't be dishonest by claiming size matters in such lists, because Marciano would not be in your top 10 if that were the case.

 

Rocky's 7-0 in title fights and undefeated record undeniably give him a spot in the top ten. It's true that I don't rank him highly h2h.

Furthermore, Rocky and Fury were the face of their respective era. Foreman was not.