Are Fighters In Better Shape Nowadays?

This!

 

I have a different perspective on the importance of conditioning and heart in combat than the average person. Because I’m also quite knowledgeable about breeding and training animals for combat. I had a game bred pitbull terrier from proven stock and also kept some game chickens before I was even a teenager. And I absorbed all I could on the art and science of it .
I never fought my animals outside a few rolls where animals weren’t allowed to be hurt. I was interested in preserving that un breakable spirit that set these animals apart. I was a kid and these were the 70’s. I felt awe at the way a fighting bull fought bravely in a bullring until his body gave out. Because that same spirit exists in some men, like it does in some dogs, some chickens, and some bulls. I started to see how heart was the most important thing that separated these natural fighters from the rest of their kind. And the point where heart starts to reveal itself is when exhaustion starts to set in. It’s true in men as it is in animals. That’s when you find out what they’re really made of.
The saying that fatigue makes cowards of us all is mostly true, unless you are one of the natural fighters I referenced above. Because in nature they would prevail over their own kind.

 

I started reading this post thinking it would be terrible, but excellent post and input there.

This is the “warrior spirit”, toughness, whatever you want to call it. It’s immeasurable and is something one doesn’t even know about themselves until it’s happened.

good input, thanks.

 

Exactly. I didn’t realize how true it was till I saw it tested on men when I joined the service. To join most elite units they will push you to muscle failure to see if you got the will to keep biting, just in the selection process. Uncle Sam also knows where the heart is displayed. At least they did when I saw it. And I got to see it in some unlikely people.
But then again, back then they used to drown and revive army scuba school trainees as part of earning their patch. See if they lose their fear of drowning and still continue with the school. I guess that was another way to find out what they’re made of, lol. Not sure that still flies in todays army.

 

I think this is an important part of this thread.

It’s this element that made the old timers fit.
Today fighters can be fitter but only the top guys are, most don’t have this X factor you are talking about.

Are you born with it, or is it nurtured into you?

 

It’s genetic. But easy to lose in breeding. In animals you breed for that specific trait using animals who carry that trait. That increases the chances of offspring born carrying that trait genetically, but it doesn’t guarantee it. It all depends on how the dna strands match up.
We obviously don’t breed humans for this trait, but it’s still in our dna, so once in a while the dna matches up correctly and we get a human heavy with that trait.
Nurturing also plays a part when the child or pup are forming psychologically . Trauma can ruin that development and erase that trait in that individual. Once fully formed, most people and animals carry that trait for life.

 

todays boxers are better conditioned. Better training methods better nutrition. But only are required to train and fight for 12 rounds. So it’s a common misconception, that fighters from yesterday because they fought 15 rounds, or going back to the early 1900s, even more that they must be better conditioned. People forget to take in what’s relevant. With todays training methods and nutrition, if they had to go back to whatever era previous using them, they would fare better n be in fare better condition to do so.

 

Regarding heavyweights, they’re weighing up to 20stone now and fighting. Go back as close as the 70s foreman was classed as a giant. He weighed 220lb v ali. That’s 3lb lighter than uysk weighed in versus fury. Uysk is classed as a small heavyweight. People are bigger in this day n age. U can’t defy physics. The heavier you are the less stamina to fight hard. Today’s nutrition n training methods mean fighters of equal proportions will be better conditioned in this day n age. You have to remember, everything is relevant. Fighters since the 80s have only had to fight 12 rounds. So they’re only conditioned for 12 rounds. That’s not to say yesterday years fighters couldn’t be equal or better. Of course they could with today’s knowledge!!

 

Regarding the HWs there's much less pride in coming into the ring in as best a shape as you can. Look at fighters like Ruiz and Miller, absolute slobs who seem to almost revel in how fat and out of shape they are. Sure, they're still just about able to compete at world level carrying that massive amount of bulk, but even so at least have some self respect. A world class fighter wouldn't dream of consistently coming into the ring so out of shape in the 70s or 80s. They were professional athletes and would train as such. And if they did have an off night the crowd would certainly make their displeasure known. So there's been a definite shift in attitudes both among fighters themselves and the fans where such rampant obesity is now seen as no big thing.

 

You kids keep pulling the nutrition and training line like you know something, but none of you can produce an example or some evidence of those claims. Why is that? Are you any different? Do you have evidence suggesting, never mind proving, that boxing training and nutrition are better now than 40 years ago? Or are you just repeating something you heard that sounds like something you want to believe?

 

Very interesting POV tbh. I hadn't thought of this.

Not gonna lie, your 2nd post hit me emotionally haha! The whole bit about trauma defecting offspring - I personally relate. I would also add that humans aren't bred like that (most of us! (besides aristocrats!)) and that if anything "heart" has been bred out of us because it's anthropologically negative given modern circumstances and we've moved to conforming in a more placid manner - "can't we all just get along?" (And 80% of humanity do get on!). Personally, I'm more of nurture believer than I am a nature believer - I'd say that heart is mostly taught and most non-physical attributes are taught and absorbed through the cognitive senses. Just my opinion.

I'd personally say that the conditioning is different from now to then, not necessarily better or worse tbh.

I believe older fighters had a greater emphasis on cardio; cardiovascular stamina and endurance. Along with a greater grasp of boxing fundamentals and a wider repertoire of boxing tips & tricks. The top top older fighters may have been in shape more often than not.

I think today's boxers have a training & conditioning regime focused on maximising weight management (draining and dehydration) and explosive strength. 12 rds < 15 rds so that's quite obvious why the shift from a focus on cardio to strength. And the weight management focus is down to really bad modern diets, food availability, portion sizes, food types/chemical compositions/ingredients, weight loss drugs (i.e., PEDs) and of course in trying to gain a competitive advantage over your opponent (i.e., weight bullying): we know that weight draining gives you an extreme advantage if biologically suited. The other side of this is that the glitz and glamour of boxing is more geared towards KOs nowadays IMO - it's how you get better marketing really and thus more money - by knocking out the other guy!

That being said, I've seen some older, less popular fights and some of them really do bloody pace themselves (slow AF) whereas today those fights seem to be more sparsely produced, IMO. The volume of punches thrown across local, regional, national, international matches/fighters seems to be greater than what it was and the quality seems to have imroved at all levels and become more competitive and more populous.

 

I think what you believe can be nurtured vs what I believe is genetic are 2 different things.
To continue with dogs as examples. With most dogs, you can teach them to be aggressive, confrontational, etc…the same way environment can mold a human into such behavior. It does not make them game.
Gameness as a trait can be better compared to genius level intelligence. No amount of study or nurturing is going to make a genius out of an average but seemingly clever guy.
And just like gameness, if 2 geniuses have children, the chances of their offspring being highly intelligent or geniuses themselves increases greatly. It does not guarantee it, but it multiplies their chances in the genetic lottery by a great deal.
At the same time, the possibility of fathering or birthing a genius is not limited to geniuses, just like producing a warrior is not limited to only natural fighter parents. The genetics for it are within most of us. It’s all a genetic gamble where your odds are increased by selective breeding.
These traits exist on a spectrum within most of us, but are only manifested in their extremes in very few of us. For every couple that made a fight to the death type of mentality child, there is another who produced a complete coward.
The problem with gameness vs intelligence is that gameness can only be identified under extremely harsh conditions and situations. The type that most of us will never come close to experiencing. Like running out of all energy while a dangerous man is trying to cave your head in and you know you have to survive 6 minutes more? Is it in you?

 

How are today’s boxers better conditioned exactly?

Based upon what?

Better training methods?

Most fighters do morning roadwork, like they’ve done for decades. Most boxers have a light bag, a heavy bag, a double end bad and a speed ball. They spar.

Floyd Mayweather liked to run miles, and chop wood.

Nutrition? There were plenty of cleaner foods back then.

There is no evidence that today’s guys are better conditioned.

And as I’ve mentioned in my previous posts, older fighters were certainly more conditioned throughout the year. As they fought far more regularly.

 

It’s all nonsense.