What if Muhammad Ali won the FOTC then retired ?

He would be top 10.

But given how one sided Foreman-Frazier would turn out to be, people would dismiss Ali as a top 3 guy. They would insist he would lose to Foreman.

 

Would still be an ATG and dominant champion. Even though the wins over Norton, Foreman, Lyle and Shavers wouldn't be there, he would still have wins over Liston, Frazier, Quarry and Patterson

 

Foreman is a consensus top ten heavyweight and won back the title at nine hundred years old. He bounced another consensus top ten heavyweight champion off the canvas not once but twice. He was only stopped once in his one hundred year career. Ali wouldn't have that scalp. All the so called gift and controversial decisions came after that.

 

Yeah that’s interesting honestly if Holmes moved quicker he could be the “guy” of the 70s thinking about it, there wouldn’t really be any money fights for Foreman if he beat Frazier, Foreman probably losses the title to Quarry? Young? A bad night against Lyle? Or he might get knocked off on the way up, I’d be interested to see how the deck is shuffled with no Ali after the FOTC… who becomes the champ? How is it decided?

 

Foreman's ATG standing REALLY skyrockets.

 

Lets see Ali's best wins would be Liston, Patterson, Terell, Folley, Quarry, Bonavena, and Frazier. Not a bad resume and def top ten but I don't think he would be in the top 5 best heavyweights so Louis would be the undisputed best and Foreman would probably be higher establishing himself as the best fighter in the 70s at least until Holmes comes in. Frazier standing would also take a big hit without the win against Ali since that's the big thing that really established him as a top ten heavyweight which funny enough would probably mean that Ali's win against him wouldn't be considered as great of a win as it is now. So overall would lead to Ali and Frazier lowering their rankings while Foreman would probably be higher.

 

It'd hurt his legacy in a pure boxing sense because he is considered the HW GOAT by either a plurality or a majority and in your scenario this would not be the case. But retiring undefeated without hardly struggling would give him an allure he currently lacks despite being viewed as greater. In your scenario he might not be considered the GOAT but would often be called "the most dominant".

There would also be a feeling of "what could have been" because Ali would be retiring at 29 before a loaded era and people would lament him not sticking around to fight Foreman, Norton, Young and Lyle who'd have all accomplished slightly more than they did in our timeline.

 

You never can tell. I've met the slickest boxers who slur horribly and met tomato cans that speak very well.

 

So, a robbery is about to happen? I doubt Ali could prepare for a prime, fully ready Frazier in such a short time. But if it happens, despite having zero losses on his record, Ali might be remembered in a worse light. Most of his opponents in the '60s weren’t as highly ranked as Foreman and it was his win over Foreman that truly shaped his legacy.

 

Top ten heavy no doubt.

 

The issue with threads like this is that it creates a alternate timeline.

How does Foreman fare in the 70s without Ali does he go on to be rated higher than Ali ?

Does Holmes still be successful without being Ali's sparring partner who was a big inspiration to Holmes ?

I'd say Ali would be still be rated very highly but he would probably go below the likes of Holmes, Lewis. And possibly Foreman depending on how much better he does without the damaging defeat to Ali.

 

Well, he'd certainly be rated higher than Rocky Marciano. 2x champ>1x champ, young prime contenders>old contenders, signature win over Frazier>signature win over Walcott. Gold medal>unremarkable amateur career.

He would obviously fare higher than hall of famers Patterson and Liston, whom he actually beat, and it's hard to imagine Jack Johnson, Dempsey, or Jeffries being place above him. He'd be a for sure lock for top 10, possibly even top 5 for quite some time.

It really depends on what happens for the rest of the decade. Without the Ali win, Frazier's resume goes from fringe top 10 potential to struggling in the 15-20 range. If he gets blasted out by Foreman and fails to win against any other notable A level fighters, his resume plummets even more. If Frazier just continues to get beat up, that could hurt Ali's stock. Holmes and Foreman are two other wild cars that could affect the perception of Ali. The two of them could end up having amazing careers competing against each other swapping the title back and forth and crushing everyone else in the loaded 70's and 80's and this could end up stirring up intense debates about if they're above Ali.

Either way, Ali would remain deeply entrenched in the top 10 if he retires after FOTC.