How was Machen moving Liston around the ring?

During his prime years, roughly 1958-63, nobody tested Sonny's strength. That's why it's a shame he never fought Chuvalo. That match would've revealed something. But we never got a chance to see.

Liston vs. Dejohn also might've showed us how he went toe-to-toe with a banger but alas, no film exists. Dejohn wasn't strong but that man had a left hook, oy!

Newspaper reports say Dejohn did land. To no apparent effect.

 

I like George Chuvalo which is why I regret having to say this…. But Liston would have made a bloody mess out of him.

 

Mulling over the imaginary Liston vs. Holyfield fight -- as an exercise to keep my brain functioning in OK shape . . .

Holyfield obviously would try to stand his ground, so a test of strength combined with trading short-range punches to the body and head would ensue.

Prime Sonny could take Evander's shots while firing heavier ones back. None of Liston's opponents on film ever dared to trade with him. That was considered the biggest no-no in boxing. Would juiced-up Holyfield stand a chance against Liston?

Definitely, yes. He had the strength, skills and endurance to compete, mano a mano. That was what drinking juice was for: battling the big, strong boys.

 

At about 3:30, Machen ducks under a punch, grabs Liston, and goes fully behind him before Sonny leaves Eddie's grasp... Saying that he was "pushing him around the ring" is a major exaggeration. It's no different than stuff I've seen McCallum, Duran, Toney, or Byrd do, and it's definitely not some showcase of strength.

 

I doubt it. Prospecting renditions of Frazier and Foreman who had not yet reached championship level both forced early stoppages on chuvalo. Now imagine Sonny Liston ( not as a prospect ) in top level form. Chuvalo was an extremely tough man who I have a lot admiration for. He absolutely had a solid chin and a lot of heart . But I think over the decades his reputation for being unstoppable has been inflated. A lot of it had to do with Muhammad Ali telling the public that George Chuvalo was “ the toughest man he ever fought.. “ that’s all well and good. But…. Ali was NOT an all time great PUNCHER.

 

Honestly in terms of “strength” in the way of a weight lifter few things are in boxing if at all.

 

Willie Pep 101

 

To be fair he was damaged goods (orbital bone due to an elbow in the sparring IIRC) against Frazier.

 

Eddie Machen has never received proper credit for his performance against Liston. This was an important televised fight to determine the #1heavyweight contender. Liston was number 1, Machen would rise to number 1 if he beat Sonny. Watching the film, it's clear that Machen wasn't lying about a pre-fight injury to his right hand. He barely threw a right hand all night. He explained afterward that he had decided rather than delay the bout he would fight Liston with one hand. That is remarkable and there's no need to explain why.

For many years Machen's brave fight was mischaracterized as "running". He did not run. He did move, although he also worked inside, and employed rough stuff that few heavyweights would have dared try on the fearsome Liston.

But he never got a dime's worth of credit while he was alive -- not from the writers or the public -- for a fight we're still talking about 65 years later.

 

The most you could say about Machen was his punch. He was a pretty notable hitter before the Johansson fight, but then ended up being a more cautious fighter for most of his career after the beating he took against Ingo.

He stopped 16/24 heading into his first loss, including that sweet ass knockout of Nino Valdes. Frazier went on to say that he got hurt against an aged Machen, too.

 

Holyfield would be trying to win.

 

Sometimes it’s about whether you’re on balance and your centre of gravity which allows you to use your full body whilst they’re not on balance and can’t use their full body and the guy on balance can take advantage of that even if he’s weaker, that’s the basics of how smaller wrestlers can have success against bigger wrestlers.