I watched this video of Tommy Burns and for me his style (mostly his stance and attacks) looks very similar to Shotokan Karate. Could you analyze his stance, defence, footwork, attacks and boxing skills from technical point of view. How could he be technically compared to the modern boxers and other martial artists? This content is protected
Holy **** bro, that's a good comparison. Good eye. Tommy is one of the most underrated HWs of all time. Something like 13 title defenses and broke the color line way before he had to, and losing his title the way he did may have made him look horrible but the reality is he lost to a man who would reign for a decade solid. It's crazy because if you hold Tommy by the metric we hold the racist champions to then he's definitely an ATG. 13 title defenses, dempsey, sully, etc. not even close to that and they didn't even bother to defend against a black man, So hardly anyone ever puts eyes on Tommy, but he was actually a pretty great smaller sized with a big punch kind of champion.
He was the embodiment of a true champion,he'll be ready to fight anyone to prove his place as the champ, that's the man you could still give some credits when he loses to anyone.
Thanks for posting this, I love these old films. Burns was not only a great fighter, he looks like a gladiator who'd be right at home in the Roman coliseum . Anyone who thinks a modern boxer would just roll through these old fighters is seriously misinformed.
Yes, Tommy Burns was the first world champion to defend the title outside the USA. He fought in the UK, Ireland, France and Australia. He was ready to fight everybady no matter of their race, nationality or size. He was a small man with a huge heart.
The issue with Burns is more before he got his title him he was a MW who couldn't win the belt and his first 2 fights weren't really considered defenses. And he never shook that first impression. There were 3 attempts to crown a different champion in 1907 and Burns had lost to 2 of those claimants in Schreck and Twin Sullivan. Burns didn't fight them or the guy that beat them in Al Kaufman, Johnson would beat Kaufman in 1909. Because of all this people took Burns reign out on his opponents instead of giving him credit for beating him. In 1908 Burns was probably the best lineal HW champ ever but people around at the time probably thought he was the worst. It didn't help that after losing to Johnson and winning the Commonwealth belt Burns basically skipped the 1910s. He could have done very well in the 1910-1915 period. Iron Hague defended against Langford 6 months after Burns defended against Johnson. Another factor that might have stopped him from getting recognition is at that time there were several of the "smaller guys with a big punch". Besides Langford there was Schreck, Root and later on Jim Flynn. In other times a MW with a big punch would stand out more.
Well, since no one else really had a shot I'll have a go. I am more of a chronicler than analyzer. Before I even get into Tommy, I want to talk to you guys about a subject I do not see often spoken to. Sometimes I read a fan has broken down all the various forms of styles in boxing into two easy to spot categories. Brawlers and Boxers, but often the terms are personalized. Essentially, hit and don't get hit back boxing vs hit me and I hit back harder boxing in some form or another. And while it is true those lines do get blurred by the best fighters it doesn't make those distinctions untrue. I would like to speak to the origins of styles. Because I read a lot of assumption, and because Tommy is a case in point for both, the blurring, and the beginning of modernization. Boxing, the martial art and sport we are fans of, is directly connected to London Prize Ring. Which, itself is directly connected to medieval dueling, which is directly connected to ancient pyx, often we just call it boxing but it was called pyx, which is directly connected to ancient pygmachia, which is a sport directly derived from martial hand-to-hand combat training originating out of the Lacedaemonian region(Sparta) specifically for non-lethal sword and shield training. The very first boxers were dudes who wore shields on their left hand and carried a sword in their right. Boxing was invented in Sparta specifically because they refused helmets and sought to toughen their soldiers to the point they could take an axe to the skull without dying. This is your origin point for the brawler type. If you think about the way they step, the way they use a jab, what the right hand means to them and how they employ it, you can still see the sword and the shield. Deontay Wilder is a great example, but so is Rocky Marciano despite them being very different in other regards. There would be styles within the ancient sport just like how there are styles in the brawlers category of modern boxers. Marciano and Canera couldn't be more different in style outside of the fact they're not great at the other end of boxing. Hit and don't be hit. As swords and warfare change, along with politics and religion, the sport is murdered by Jesus but the martial art survives and continues to linger around swords in the form of dueling. Not all duels absolutely had to be to the death and most were not. First blood was a very popular dueling subject. Sometimes it's first point, round, or even closes the match. What I as saying is it is not by chance England's first champion in Figg is not only a duelist but a famed swordsman who, by all accounts, would be considered something of a brawler today. Figg comes during a political pushback against Puritanism, politics allowed for a sport to reform. Which bring us up in time to when the rapier and fencing was all the craze. Rapier and dagger were becoming popular while the mortality of dueling was becoming less so which leads to a sort of duel, often for show not appeasement, called fencing with fists. It would be Daniel Mendoza who brought the rapier and dagger style into boxing, Hit and don't be hit back boxing employs fencer's footwork, distance control, and counter attacks. This is the birth of the viable rival in boxing. A different mindset employing the same movements in different ways for a vastly different effect. If Tyson crushes you, you might lose a tooth. If Mayweather crushes you, you look silly for 36 mins. Now, with these eyes play that video. You can not tell me you do not see fencer's feet on Tommy Burns. Good ass, my dude is floating, style fencer's feet. Peep my dude's distance control. He's throwing marrys from the fences bro. But, look up stairs. His shoulders, his posture, the lean, Tommy got his shield out. Pushing that left in their face so that he came slash over it with his hellacious overhand right. Upstairs he looks like Dempsey. Downstairs he looks like Fitzs, Corbett, or what I imagine Menodza himself looked like. It's early feet, but they're good and they get the job done. And in that regard of fencer's feet I do not think you'll see any better than Burns. Burns takes Corbet and Fitzs prime for prime all day bro. Look at my dude glide. It's just a gorgeous mix of the two old styles coming together to form one pretty hard to stop bad ass. Unfortunately for Tommy Burns there was another style born out of Mendoza's school of boxing that was banned from proving its worth on the biggest stage. That style would prove to be a superior mix of the sword and shield and the rapier and dagger. Now as to Shotokan. Why I was like "Whoa good eyes bro" is because the history I just laid out that explains why Tommy fights the way he does and why that era looks the way it does has nothing to do with Shoto. Shotokan of course is a TMA, 0 ties. But watch some Shotokan. Like Judo, they just found things that work too. Shotokan has good overhands and great fencer's feet. Solid punches, solid movement, it's only hole is grappling and that's nicely covered by judo. In a weird way Tommy Burns is a Shotokan/Judo practitioner even though he absolutely is not. I made a lot of spelling/grammar errors. I tried to catch them all on the edit but if I didn't, my bad.
The (tournament) Shotokan similarity seems right. Burns found the same solution to fighting with small gloves that the point karate guys did. It probably wasn't the optimal method, but it was good enough when pro boxing was expanding and trying to figure out the best approach for gloves.