Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

[insert bad poetry about Sonny's tormented soul of a poet]

 

There are multiple issues going on with "Tokyo Douglas." Who I think was primarily invented to sustain the fan dogma that "ATGs" are made of better and finer stuff that can't be beaten by mere contenders without special circumstances.

 

Yes, well put, as always, from Greg. But the idea that Liston's two losses to Ali are excusable because of who was in the other corner, don't wash, for me. "Oh Sonny's gone down from a nothing punch, and is now putting on the worst acting performance since Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins last year", doesn't make it better.

 

I swear some of these guys think Wlad was Lennox Lewis but bigger and badder. Well guess what homies, Jabimir Clinchko was literally the most risk averse heavyweight in history and the reasons why were his poor chin, so-so stamina and tendancy to panic/freeze while under pressure.

If you want to believe your fictional version of Wlad beats the **** out of every heavyweight ever, go ahead.

But Liston KOs him worse than Brewster ever did. He'd be begging to be let back in with Peter after Liston was done with him.

 

And yet somehow he dominated the division for an entire decade and barely, if ever, lost a round. He had ruled the division for a full 8% of its Marquis de Queensbury existence upon his departure.

Wlad has more argument as being the GOAT than he does for being #10 on the ATG list.

 

Says the guy who thinks Liston was some sort of monster, not a small heavyweight feasting on even smaller cruiserweights and light heavyweights. But sure a small heavyweight is gonna intimidate a SHW like Wlad. Only one who believes in a fictional version of a fighter is you

 

If I remember my Ali hagiographies aright, don't they like to talk about how Ali intimidated Liston with his crazy man act, or his NOI connections, or brilliant mind games, or what have you? As far as intimidation goes, I expect 6'2.5", 210 pound hyperactive guy barely out of his teens < a 6'6", 245 pound monstrous puncher with the bona fides @Seamus is pointing out.

 

Nah, that's exorbitant praise right here. I like Wlad over Liston myself in this matchup here, but you must be lost in reverie like a prebubescent school girl for good ol' Wlad to actually believe that. Wlad's opposition is one of the best in Heavyweight history, purely in terms of numbers and quantity. It also happens that the quality level of most of Wlad's opponents was in a state of absolute leprosy.

Byrd x2, Povektin, Pulev, Haye, Peter x2, Chagaev and Chambers are the only wins in his CV that are worth a look. Only Povektin and Byrd were elite and would be standouts in most great's records. Haye was a good P4P win, but a his HW resume is just Valuev and a retiring John Ruiz. And Peter, Chambers, Chagaev and Pulev range from C- to C+. The former got a gift against an old faded fat cigar inhaling Middleweight

Everyone else Wlad faced sucked, like a lot. Including the other ranked fighters he beat. He probably divorced his wife because he realised they were better at sucking than she was. Longevity and title defences are still nice extras, but they don't move a man with Wlad's wins closer to Ali and Louis than they do the likes of Holyfield or Tyson. Whoever the third greatest HW ever is (and it's Lewis), is still closer to whoever the #10 HW is than to Ali and Louis.

 

C'mon, man. There is NO argument for Wlad to be the GOAT, or anywhere near it. The competition isn't there.

 

As someone who thinks Wlad is underrated by old-timers. These comments are bat**** insane and flat-out revisionism at this point.

 

Wladimir Klitschko but in a fight between both I'm going to put Liston by KO.

But the career of Klitschko was more important for the Heavyweight.

 

I literally couldn't give a **** about Liston. He's all wrong for Wlad and the revisionism regarding Wlad is crazy. Particularly by you and Mac. He wasn't some destroyer, he wasn't some master boxer. He was a well schooled spoiler with great physical attributes, but clear weaknesses both stylistic and physical.

This is the real Wlad:

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And this is what you think Wlad is:

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He could be all wrong for Wlad, and you're entitled to this opinion, it's a fastasy fight at the end of the day, but saying he would have intimidate Wlad is straight up crazy talk.

Yeah, becuase this is fake Wlad, right?

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