Was Ali's level of athleticism for a HW boxer unprecedented at the time?

I will always maintain the version of Ali that fought Zora Folley in 1967 would beat any heavyweight in history. (And it's mind-boggling to think how much BETTER he could have become if he were able to continue his career uninterrupted from April 1967-October 1970!)

 

You are preaching to the choir good sir. I don't think he would have got a whole lot better tho. He was fully matured and in control.

 

his style was not a style for an old boxer and he started boxing very early. 25-26 years and we start going downhill. However if he continued his career and faced Frazier in 1971 he would have lost and never got revenge. So that 3 year break makes Ali the Goat and wins against Joe Louis.

 

Ali-Terell was not competitive.

 

A bit strange that you've chosen a fight where he got outhit for 6 rounds and looked disinterested in some early rounds, as your choice for 'best ever', especially when considering he fought an opponent, Nat Fleischer had called "as futile as any challenger going back to Johnny Paycheck".

 

Dunno, didn't live then, but seems like it is now!

 

I have to rewatch the Chuvalo fight because my recollection is that he moved except for that spell in the second.

EDIT: He was on the ropes for 30 seconds in the third also and 10-15 in the fourth, so depends on how you define "much" I guess, Btw; at the end of round 2, when he had his longest flat footed spell, the commentator says "the champ is toying with him". So whether it's silly or not to think that Ali actually wasn't tired already at this stage and stayed in front of Chuvalo because he decided to for other reasons, it doesn't seem to be a very novel one in any case.

That he got hit "a lot" also doesn't jive with my memory. Chuvalo got hit a lot and Ali got hit far less.

As for "Usyk foul"-level Chuvalo did land some for sure, though.

No one is of course saying that he literally never got hit, only in the same sense that they say RJJ never got hit in his prime. Ali probably got hit a bit more than RJJ, but the concept that they were difficult to land clean on is correct in both cases I'd say.

Many of the punches that got called as landed by Chuvalo was rollled with and gracing at best by memory.

 

I dunno--I'm more in line with this quote I found on another boxing thread about Ali's performace that night--more inclined to go in this direction.

"This whole fight, Ali is on another level. So efficient with his punches and footwork and head movement. This is Ali at his best IMO, could dance but also knew how to settle down and sit on his punches while still being mobile. Actually unfair that someone that big can move like that."

 

psst

thats when anabolic steroids starting becoming widely used in sport

just sayin...

 

Folley was a bit past it for Ali, but he was levels ahead of Johnny Paycheck. The former was a legitimate contender, the latter was a journeyman.

 

Zora Folley beat Eddie Machen, Doug Jones, Bob Foster, and George Chuvalo. What were Johnny Paycheck's biggest wins? What did he have to offer besides a cool last name?

 

If he continued he would have fought Frazier in '68 and beat him as he would still be at his absolute peak and Frazier wouldn't mature into FOTC Frazier as he did in real life.

 

Folley was a bit past it. Ali even acknowledged it, but he was levels above Johnny Paycheck. He also beat Henry Cooper and Nino Valdez besides the fighters I cited.

 

Patterson was just as fast. Maybe he couldn’t dance like Ali but his hands were just as fast if not even faster cos he was more direct an didn’t waste time showboating