How come the strong consensus is Ali and Louis are the top 2 heavyweights of all time?

Because their resumes whup all the others, comfortably.

 

Ali and Louis were pretty far ahead in terms of resume and/or longevity. These two are pretty cut and dried, really. Can’t see much of an argument for anyone else in the top two. Ali clearly takes the number one slot for me, with Louis coming in second due to longevity. I’ll take Holmes for number three.

 

Because both Ali and Louis have 30+ wins against top 10 ranked opposition which pretty much blows away any other Heavyweights resume.

When you take into account that Holmes has 15 wins against top 10 ranked Heavyweights and Lewis has 13 who are often rated in the top 5 you get an idea of how good Ali's and Louis's resumes actually are.

Plus it doesn't hurt Ali was in the strongest Heavyweight era of all time and pretty much beat every notable top Heavyweight of his era.

Plus Louis has the ridiculous 25 title defences so he has the longevity and consistency in his favour.

 

I don't have Holmes/Lewis/Wladimir who are my 3-5 that far behind them. Holmes and Wladimir were just as dominant and Lewis had a good length reign and beat everyone he faced.

But I am guessing it's based on achievements combined with Ali's era being seen as one of the best in particular the 70s. That's my hunch.

 

1) All round ability and 2) number of wins vs top 10 opponents.

Holmes is a close contender. But Holmes did not have anywhere near the competition that Ali did. And while Holmes did have similar competition to Louis, Holmes missed a few key fighters from his era and Louis didn't.

Additionally, Louis had great power in both hands and was the greatest combination puncher in heavyweight history. Holmes did not have anywhere near the offensive ability of Louis.

Lewis had two one punch ko losses which pretty much disqualifies him even though i have him at #6. Holyfield had too many inconsistent performances. Tyson had too short a peak though he had physical gifts comparable to Ali and Louis.

Liston only had two title defenses. Foreman has a great top heavy resume but beyond his 6 or so best wins, he lacks depth.

Marciano was great but untested vs big 200 lb plus punchers. Frazier was amazing but the losses to Foreman make it a hard case.

Wlad spent his title reign hugging and leaning on guys instead of fighting them like a real champion would.

That leaves Usyk. I feel that Usyk would need another 5-6 wins vs top 10 guys and then we can make a case.

Heavyweights are among the most flawed division in that sense. Whereas middleweight or light-heavyweight fighters have fewer holes in their resume.

Ali and Louis are the two rare heavies with very few holes in their resume.

I wish Usyk was 5 years younger with what he has already accomplished. Perhaps if he turned pro around 2008? Maybe he would have a couple of pro losses on his record but he would also have lots of more wins. I have no doubt he would have a resume worthy of top 3.

 

Go watch the two of them in their absolute best performances. The reason they are at the top of the pedestal will be quite obvious.

 

I have Foreman ahead of them but there is a canyon between Louis/Ali and number 4 for sure.

 

Louis for most title defenses, most wins vs top ten contenders, and longest reign as champ. Ali for most wins over other ATGs at heavyweight (Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Foreman) and being the best fighter in what's considered by many to be the strongest heavyweight era (70s)

 

Everyone has opinions so that’s cool and all, but how does one rationalize this?

 

Ali for being the best heavyweight in two different decades

He beat everyone in the top 10 Heavyweight rankings in 1963 with the exception of Eddie Machen who he never fought.
Sonny Liston, Champion

1. Cassius Clay
2. Doug Jones
3. Ernie Terrell
4. Cleveland Williams
5. Zora Folley
6. Eddie Machen
7. Floyd Patterson
8. Karl Mildenberger
9. George Chuvalo
10. Brian London

and ten years later beat everyone in the 1973 top 10 ring rankings

George Foreman, Champion

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Frazier
3. Ken Norton
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Ron Lyle
6. Earnie Shavers
7. Oscar Bonavena
8. Joe Bugner
9. Jimmy Ellis
10. Chuck Wepner