Fury will not acknowledge his defeats

I agree with what you are saying in principle. What we think that means is very different. Dominance and SOS are two sides of the same coin. They give each other value. If ones going to weight someone an ATG off of a few close encounters with top 5 fighters in a medicore era when they have literally nothing else thats going too far. Given Usyk has 7 wins at HW he NEEDS dominance. It doesn't matter if Dubois, AJ and Fury are the 3 best other fighters of this era which is doubtful. Thats not enough.

 

Usyk clearly won. I'm saying he could have easily lost if things went a little different. Like not getting an uncharacteristic KD. Usyk clearly won all his fights but very little could have flipped them.

 

I would say it depends on why the era is mediocre...
In this case, for me, it's a mediocre era because it lacks depth rather than, necessarily, that the top guys weren't that good (although lack of depth makes that difficult to prove as such - especially when one of the supposed top guys wouldn't fight most of the others).

Fury and Joshua were, at their best, solid champions - not necessarily spectacular (maybe in very short spells), but solid and worthy champs... Fury showed his ability in much shorter flashes (partly due to retiring through most of his prime and partly through putting in a few special performances in amongst some very average, even embarrassing ones), where Joshua was generally solid and more consistent over a longer period (to the extent that the off nights stand out more).

Beating the two of them twice each, against stacked odds, is definitely impressive - beating Dubois is one that'll age well as he's looking very likely to dominate the next era.

ATG seems fair, GOAT is probably pushing it a bit.

There's little (sane) question that Joshua and Fury were the 2 best other fighters of this era - or that both were past their best (then again, it's not unfair to suppose Usyk probably was too)...

Dubois is less clear - he'll probably dominate the next era, but he's not really even prime yet... And definitely wasn't when he fought Usyk.

 

All I can say is that at least the talk of Fury being the greatest fighter to ever have lived has finally stopped. RIP Tyson Fury, your time in the spotlight will be over soon.

 

Then I'm not sure why you brought up the point in favour of Fury.

I can accept that Fury does some things better than Usyk. He's better off the backfoot, has better upper body movement, better counterpunching, and is a much better in-fighter. But overall better boxer? I don't see it, and he lost twice to a man he had almost every physical advantage over. So what was the equaliser for Usyk?

 

To both you and @It's Ovah so I don't make 2 posts I'm a more general critic of Usyk, Fury, AJ and Wilder as a group. I don't think we know if they are the greatest because they did not fight enough up and comers people can accept this with Wilder but struggle to apply this evenly. They are really living off beating the Wlad, Povetkin, Pulev, Ortiz generation. As just champions they are fine but for guys who kept their belt for years they are the worst. Parker, Ruiz, Whyte, Wallin are the top HWs from their era anyone in this group fought and Wallin just lost to Chisora. And Ruiz I and Wallin were the only ones who didn't have belt of some sort attached. We've nearly reached 10 years since Fury v Wlad. This is pitiful and its not because the division sucks.

Dubois destroyed AJ and might be the best. But how do we know hes better than the current crop when they didn't get oppurtunities? Even if Dubois is truly the best HW their first fight might be a Jack Johnson v Langford sort of thing. Then theres the foul and the momentum switch which would really effect a younger guy in the biggest fight of his life. At least since they are fighting we should get some clarity there.

So I call Usyks opponents(not Chisora) top 5 guys cause thats what I see them as, at least for sure. I don't see Usyk beating Fury, AJ and Dubois and see him beating the clear 3 best other HWs in the world.

With Fury I expected Usyk to beat him easy thought he was done as a top HW. Fury nearly outboxing Usyk is more of a bad thing for Usyk to me. I both think Fury had his best fight possible and that he got unlucky. 2nd fight is just standard ex champion delusion. The idea Usyk is overcoming "stacked odds" feels manufactured when he was only an underdog in the first Joshua fight because he had 2 HW fights. It feels like Usyk fans are the ones calling him an underdog so he gets more credit for fights they expect him to win by a round or two. Were Fury fans confident Fury would demolish Usyk? No they were like "I love Fury but this is going to be tough, its been a good run". Then when the 1st fight was close they got some confidence. But thats not really being an "underdog" for Usyk.

 

Dubois won't dominate anything unless he follows Fury and Wilder's example of avoiding all live bodies

 

Whole lead up to fight one was he was going to big man the little man then lost two boxing matches LMAO

 

Fighters, much like sprinters, are very much ego driven. The successful fighters l’ve met think nobody has ever beaten them and nobody could.

 

Fury has been creating narratives for his flaws, shortcomings, cowardness, etc., for years now. The absurd is that people do believe him even though the reality is right there.

He lost clearly both fights to Usyk, but made it close and competitive.

To me, I respect him more now than before, his stock has gonne up. No need for the acting, Usyk is a boxing legend.

 

AJ has dozens and dozens of PR companies to keep his fake persona in check .

 

What’s AJ got to do with it?

 

Everything

AJ has a fake image (Facts)

 

You think fury isn’t fake?

 

The man is enjoying retirement, became a energy drink salesman parttime. Let him pursue his dreams. Leave him be.
His cheerleader, John, also has been mostly been hiding in his basement since the embarassing Usyk 1 incident. I’d be surpised if we heard anything from them in 2025.