If SRR, Greb, Langford and Henry Armstrong didn't exist, who would be the GOAT(S)?

I already had Ezzard Charles as number 1 p4p,of course him.

 

Either Ezzard Charles or Benny Leonard imo.

 

Those are not the "universal GOATs". Universal implies its a top 5 list used by almost everyone, and it is not. I know you're new to boxing; you'll find quite a wide array opinions on who the top 5 greatest of all time are, but the common denominator you'll almost always see is Robinson.

For me, the top 5 GOATs are Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Ali, and Charles. Totally subjective list, but you'll see a similar variation of that top 5 in other guys, and neither school of thinking is wrong or right.

 

Ezzard Charles
Muhammad Ali
Roberto Duran
Willie Pep
Sugar Ray Leonard

 

Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather would both have good arguments to be up there tbh

 

IMO, Charles ranks right in the mix w/ SRR, Greb, Sam, & Hank as the 5 best fighters ever - so remove those other 4 & Charles stands alone atop every1 else IMO.

 

Bob Fitzsimmons

 

McLarnin, Gans, Pep & Duran.

There's a few more that I wouldn't grumble about either such as Salvador Sanchez , Tony Canzoneri, Ezzard Charles, Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney...

 

Duran
Charles
Ali
Pep

 

Dunno what you mean. Money is GOAT

 

Duran

 

Gans is already #2 on my list, so removing Greb puts the Old Master at the top, What he did in the summer desert heat in Goldfield is insane. People don't realize what they're seeing when he drops Nelson with a singular hook and singular cross. Sam Langford repeatedly stated that Joe Gans was the absolute best, while Fitz called Gans "The marvel of the age." John L. Sullivan called him the best lightweight the ring ever saw. During his career following Erne II, he was buried in an avalanche of glowing contemporary praise from his peers. Only George Dixon seems suggested to have been better by those who saw both in action.

I'll put his idol at #2 now, so Fitz it is.

Duran is forever my post WW II #1 without Robby there, so #3 for Roberto.

#4 is a challenge, but Archie Moore said it was Burley, and that's a monstrous endorsement.

#5 I'm going with Langford. While I don't believe he could've dethroned Jack Johnson or Jess Willard (logistically, Jess was too tall, too durable, too strong, and there's no way Sam beats the well conditioned 239 pound Pottawatomie Giant of Havana. I don't see how any MW Champion during Langford's prime would've clearly beaten him (and he did knock out future southpaw MW Champion Tiger Flowers for his final major win), but he was probably too stout to get under that limit. However, the guy who dethroned Joe's idol Fitz to win the LHW title never defended it, and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien was halted by Sam near his career's end.

Langford for the LHW Title during his prime? In 1914, 1915 and 1916, Jack Dillon held the LHW Title while Sam was raising some hell. (This was the interval when Langford was filmed against Jennette and knocked out Wills twice.) Like Langford, Dillon could play with HWs. Sam was 186 for Jennette. As solid as his misleading gut was, surely he could've worked off enough of it to go after Dillon's title. As a world champion himself, Langford might have more leverage with a higher payoff for rematching Johnson..

Here I've followed my gut with first thoughts.

Very tough to leave out Pep. Not so much Armstrong, as Hank was emphatic that his very best wouldn't have been good enough against Robby.

As spectacular as Charles was, I've always had this impression of Ezz as vulnerable at all times in his career. Very strong claim as the GOAT LHW. though. The avatar on a long deceased former account of mine shows Fitzie Fitzpatrick decking a peak pre Baroudi Charles with one of the Irish Blockbuster's rights. Was there anyone Charles didn't fight aside from Booker? (Well over a decade ago, Springs sent me a hopeful PM asking me what I thought the chances were that Booker would get to Canastota. I reassured him in no uncertain terms that continued exclusion against Eddie Booker was impossible, that he would indeed get into the IBHOF. I've often wondered if Springs himself was eventually the catalyst for making it happen.) I expect and hope for many here to rate Charles in this exclusionary top five, and have no problems with it.

Excluding Benny Leonard was hard for a guy who read Heywood Broun's classic article "The Orthodox Champion" as a kid. He's third in my eternal trinity of lightweights. But what Gans did in Goldfield is probably forever unreachable, and in addition to Montreal, Duran was winning after 13 rounds against a Hagler at his absolute peak, not a ring worn, slowed down and aging MMH. In the greatest performance of Iran Barkley's career, when the Blade was between victories over a much bigger and stronger Hearns than the one who once wiped El Cholo out, Duran dropped him and won yet another title, coming as close as possible to redeeming himself for what Hearns did to him without actually rematching Tommy.

1) Gans

2) Fitz

3) Duran

4) Burley. (I'm admittedly putting a lot of faith into the Ole Mongoose's testimony, but Moore's contexts are off the charts. The film of his rematch with Oakland Billy Smith was studied and brilliantly analyzed by Joe Rein when very few had seen it. Tangling with him must've been a miserable experience.

5) Langford

 

Eddie Futch concurred with Archie Moore's opinion of Burley.