There can't be any excuses for a guy whose being touted as the greatest to ever live. The #1 best ever boxer shuld be able to overcome a weight disadvantage. Countless guys have who wouldn't even crack the top 50. Plus , as i believe it , Greb has other wins over guys who outweighed him more than 8-13 pounds. So it wasn't the weight that cost him against Gene , it was most likely a skills gap. Plus x2 . Greb fought out of an outdated stance. The stance is the basis for boxing technique. Old stance guys would not cut it with the more evolved and improved stance. This is why i believe a guy like Carl Froch would tan Grebs hide unmerciful.
Tell me who you think is the greatest to ever do it? As for comparing old stance fighters vs new style that's not relevant to who is the greatest ever.. it's probable that had those older era individuals fought in a modern era they would have evolved with the sport & adapted their styles too. Greatness is something that is inate. It would transcend eras.
Let's hope you've never made an excuse for SRR & he overcame all his weight disadvantages then.. otherwise you'd be a hypocrite. Well I've checked & it appears you have.. you made excuses for his loss to Maxim such as heat exhaustion and having a short training camp.. you also cited it was at 175 & SRR started as a WW.. yet here you are critical of a MW fighting HWs & LHWs when he was basically blind in one eye & out of his best weight class .. & even worse act like those fights were cut & dry & Tunney was a legit 4-1 with him.. if it was SRRs losses i guarantee you'd be more nuanced & apply context... i bet you have too.. many times.. you also praise Robinson for fighting 3 times in one month yet make no mention of Grebs 45 fights in one year securing 10 wins over HOF fighters in that time frame.. SRR has never come close to doing that.. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Robinson doesn't have an argument for being the greatest ever.. I'm just using your logic against you here.. yes he was suffering heat exhaustion.. but was it not hot for Maxim too? There can be no excuses. SRR never consistently faced the weight disparities Greb did .. yes he had the odd fight but not to the extent Greb did over & over again.. plus he was taller & rangier than Greb anyway.. SRR was nearly 6ft... Greb was 5'8.. yet Greb was the one consistently fighting HWs & LHWs.. What are your excuses for the Turpin or Ralph Jones losses? Or Fullmer & Basilio? & anyway, how do you know Greb didn't fight in extreme heat too and manage to get through it.. i guarantee he did... I'd like to have seen Robinson fight Tunney.. i know who I'd have favoured...
It's respectable. I don't agree with a couple but everyone you selected you definitely can make a good argument for them to be theres
I'm thinking Ross over McLarnin now & having Jimmy somewhere in the 15... might add tunney or Fitz to it too.. but dunno who to change with yet.. its all a bit of fun anyway
The difficulty in assessing his legacy is that he often didn't beat those #1 guys @ the weight classes where they were actually #1. He basically carved out his own niche as the King of Over-the-weight matches.
Here is my list. 1. Ali 2.Robinson 3. Duran 4. Chavez 5. Armstrong 6. Moore 7. Pep 8. Greb 9. Louis 10. De Leon (LOL Just kidding!)....Monzon The first 7 are set in stone. The later 3 can change every day. Ross, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Salvador Sanchez, Floyd and Rocky float around the top 20.
I think after all is considered for me personally Greb is a greater fighter than SRR.. mainly because of his legendary ability to tackle bigger fighters even HWs.. Ray was a more sophisticated boxer but its not just about that.. he was not as rugged as Greb, who roughed up heavier men regularly.. Tunney even said he loved fighting the "big boys", because of his great hand speed and ability to scoot away from danger.. "he was never in the same spot for more than a second"...So elusive was Greb, thus negating his heavier opponents weight advantage.. imo no MW ever would beat Tunney, except Harry Greb .. whose peculiar style, ruggedness and stamina, made Greb the exception to the rule.. i can't see SRR beating Tunney. Aswell as Tunney he met other heavyweights such as Gunboat Smith.. KOd him in 1 (Smith beat HW champ Jess Willard).. Greb also beat Willie Meehan (who beat both Langford & Dempsey) & Billy Miske (who fought Dempsey three times aswell as many other great fighters)... yet Greb was just 5'8.. averaged 165lbs.. & was essentially blind in one eye. That is why he's the GOAT. SRR would not fair aswell as Greb did versus the same competition. That i firmly believe.
I never, never understand how Sugar Ray Leonard is so consistently in people's top 10's. His entire ATG resume is 6 wins. 6! Benitez Duran X2 Hagler Hearns LaLonde The first 25 wins of his 40 fight career are typical early career can crashing & rank rising, and the remaining are mediocre to the point they don't contribute to an ATG resume. I think to be in the top 10 you need a similar level of quality but about double the quantity.