Is Joe Louis still a top 5 heavyweight H2H if you give him modern training and nutrition?

Absolutely, this cross-breeding of generations is largely a waste of time to me.

 

Agree with this. How the PEDs are cycled has 'evolved' too, and suits the fighters needs / lifestyle much more. Nowadays, fighters are microdosing 'natural' compounds which benefits them in the long run without causing undue harm to their bodies or boxing ability. Test, HGH and EPO seem to be the main ones. Can only imagine what it would be like for Louis to slowly push his limit with well cycled micro dosing.

Seemed like back in the 90s some fighters were munching the Hulk formula like you'd munch on skittles. The fact an Evan Fields physique can box for 12 rounds is ridiculous. There's no way that guy didn't have some serious internal problems during / after his career.

 

Can a not lean, 6'2, 200lbs man that dominated his era in large part due to his physical advantages over his competition, hop out of a time machine with the exact same body and fighting style, and dominate an era where (barring hand speed) he has precisely zero physical advantages over his competition?

No. Obviously not. It'd be like asking if Middleweight GGG with no adjustments could have dominated Kovalev and Beterbiev at Light Heavy.

Edit - Do you mean would Joe be amongst Usyk, Dubois, Kayabel, Parker etc as a top 5 H2H heavyweight today, or d'you mean would Joe still maintain an all time standing as a top 5 H2H heavyweight if he fought in this era?

 

Galento was a very hard puncher, comparable to Tua.

 

Louis had zero physical advantages over Tommy Farr, Lou Nova, Max Baer, Buddy Baer, James Braddock, Charlie Retzlaff, Primo Carnera etc etc.
He was 6 lbs heavier than Schmeling and most of his challengers were around the 185-205 lbs range. He wasn't winning based on size, he was winning because his exceptional power, hand speed and stamina were paired with the best training conistency in the history of the division. There was no overweight or undertrained Louis between 1934 and 1948.
His hand speed, power and boxing skill would be unseen in the division even today.

 

But crude, diminutive and fat.

 

If 200lb Louis "trained " like Holyfield did in going from CW to HW he'd be a 220 lb killer. Yes he'd be very competitive against everyone in the HW division today.

 

Even vs Herbie Hide??

 

Even vs TYE FIELDS.

 

Give Joe Louis one testosterone shot and he would beat Fury and Usyk in the same night.

 

???

This makes no sense. I didn't say he was winning based just on his size?

I said "Joe Louis dominated because of his physical advantages", and you say "Joe Louis wasn't winning based on his size... just all his exceptional hand speed, power and stamina", ergo, his physical advantages lol.

A 200lbs, 6'2 man having a massive stamina, speed and power advantage over similarly sized competition = huge advantage. Having a massive hand speed and stamina advantage, whilst being at a 3 inches of height & 50lbs of weight deficit, is a net deficit in terms physical advantages.

It's not even like Louis is particularly fleet of foot either, or like I said before particularly hard to hit. How is a boxer-puncher without any ATG defensive aspect in their game (head movement, footwork, guard etc), nor ATG reflexes, nor an ATG chin going to be competitive with people MUCH larger, stronger and harder hitting than them? The only shorter & lighter heavyweights we've seen have success against modern super heavies are elite pure boxers. The only exception I can think to this is Haye, who A wasn't all THAT successful at heavyweight and B had insane reflexes and excellent movement speed.

 

Louis would clean house without any modern bullsh*t

Carnera was stronger than Fury 100% like closer to the level of circus strongman

He would break Usyk with a body shot

Someone nowadays might have more one punch power, but Louis is still vastly superior in combination and short punch power

Louis wasn't lacking, he had subtleties that were hard to notice, because if you come out with the modern framework footwork, defense etc you become predictable, and a strategy is to hide that from your opponent as much as possible, if it's less noticeable in fights it may also help to get your opponent to underestimate you or think they have an easy opening for something, meanwhile Louis is in camp drilling counters for it

 

Don't need to change a thing about him and he'd be in the running for #1 cruiserweight H2H.

 

If what Frazier wrote about his own conditioning training is accurate, it was basically all genetic gift, because he just did the standard stuff fighters do. He didn't go above and beyond for his stamina training or anything. Just happened that if he trained like he was supposed to and showed up fit, he'd have better stamina than just about everyone.

 

Well if it wasn't size you were talking about, then the fighters today will have the same issues fighters back then had dealing with him, that being that his combination of hand speed, power, accuracy and skill would be unmatched.

I'll put it this way, you agree that his contemporaries weren't losing because of Louis' size but because of specific exceptional attributes he possessed, what makes you think fighters today won't have the same issues given that size was never the deciding factor? Keep in mind that extra size will make it significantly easier for Louis to land at full force on less mobile opponents and we have enough footage to see what that looks like.

This last bit isn't even based on Louis, it's a mythical image you've made in your mind of a slow plodding moron with big power and fast hands who somehow got through 12 years worth of top contenders because they were primitive or severely under equipped.

Louis moved his head every time he threw a punch.
Here's a short example of him doing it in his prime:

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Here he is slipping jabs while way past his prime (this whole fight is basically Louis stalking, slipping and jabbing, you can find examples in every minute of the fight but you can just see this moment at 7:20)

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Static head, sloppy defense, plodding feet Louis isn't a real thing.