Harry Greb Draws The Colorline

Right. I will also add that:
1) Greb beat Willie Langford. The Pittsburgh Post
wrote that Greb, “waiving the color line, obtained a decision in the six-round bout with Willie Langford". March 1918,
2) Greb defeated Kid Lewis: in Pittsburgh on January 22, 1925.

Black boxers, to be added to those already mentioned earlier in the discussion: Allen Town Gans, Flowers, Norfolk, Blackburn.

Greb, now aged and worn out from too many fights, defended his middleweight title against Flowers, the No. 1 opponent. If he had wanted to protect himself, he could have hidden behind the color line...

 

I have already written that if you reject Fleischer, you can consult other authors, whom I have mentioned briefly, such as Pollack and Paxton. He, Paxton, to whom we owe a monograph on Greb, very accurate and complete. Therefore it is useless for you to attack Fleischer again.

 

Willie Langford
Kid Lewis
Allen town Joe Gans
Jack Blackburn
Kid Norfolk 2x
Tiger Flowers 3x

Pretty exceptional and considering the era almost unheard of, we’re barking up the wrong tree talking color line with Greb.

 

I don't really follow boxers from that era because quite frankly the style to me is outdated and not pleasing to watch with Tunney being an exception.

Looking at Harry Greb's resume it looks outstanding but i do like @Dubblechin post atleast having a counter argument and maybe somewhat controversial opinion to put some doubt in regards to Greb being classed as one of the GOATs.

Me personally i can't rate someone that highly i've never seen fight i like to make my own opinion.

For example Monzon i recognize his achievements but when i see him fight he didn't blow me away and i wasn't overly impressed with the footage i see of him.

 

Greb's record is so astoundingly good it reads like science fiction. His 1919 ledger alone puts him in the conversation as the GOAT. In totality it simply isn't matched, not by Langford or SRR.

If you are not overly impressed watching Monzon, despite his wild level of success, perhaps it is the viewer and not the viewed that needs to be examined. My point being that people have in their mind what great boxing "looks like" and often that distracted by flash, superfluous action, eye-catching moments versus 15 round totalities.

 

This is textbook ‘two things can be true.’

If Harry, indeed, drew the color line and refused to fight any individual at any time and based that on the color of the opponent’s skin … he drew the color line. A thing is what it is — it is not something else.

If he also fought other black fighters, that can also be true. But fighting them does not mean he did not draw the color line in the particular incident cited.

If he did do so, for whatever reasons may be behind his refusal to face this particular guy in this particular instance and cite race as the reason, it’s fair to critique, comment on, criticize and discuss the matter. It certainly isn’t to be applauded, regardless of what other black fighters he may have faced.

 

Alot of people on this forum have not been wowed by footage of Monzon even from posters who lived through that era.

I wouldn't say a boxer has to be "flashy" for me to be overly impressed with them i'll give you some examples of some boxers who have impressed me from the older eras.

Jose Napoles
Gene Tunney
Salvador Sanchez
Sonny Liston
Sugar Ray Robinson
Alexis Arguello
Roberto Duran
Dwight Muhammad Qawi

I think that's quite a diverse arrange of styles like i said i can recognize the strengths of Monzon but i wouldn't say he wowed me in any of the footage i see. Some boxers just aren't pleasing on the eye when you watch them like Carlos Ortiz, Nino Benvenuti, etc.

 

A lot of people on this forum don't know what they are watching.

They please my eye immensely. Again, perhaps it is the eye that must be questioned and not the footage.

EDIT: Let me make a distinction here. We all have preferences for styles we prefer to watch. That is different than not seeing the greatness in what a specific overwhelmingly successful boxer does, whether it is or is not your preferred style to view.

 

I've already said i recognize the strengths of Monzon but like i said i wouldn't say he's up there with the most eye pleasing or stand out fighters i've seen on film.

He's very effective at what does controlling the distance, good jab, good right hand, good stamina, good chin. His biggest strengths are he has no real glaring weaknesses and that's what makes him good.

But in regards to the footage he's a tad on the slow side, not explosive, not overly powerful, not a fluid style.

I think a better choice of words on my part would be unaesthetic rather than not impressive.

 

But he will like a broken record.

 

Interesting how Norfolk and Flowers fought him even.

 

Well, Norfolk blinded him one eye and he fought both when he was on the downside or worse.

 

Flowers was the same age and had a ton of mileage too … Norfolk had a ton of mileage too … I don’t buy it …