Dirty Harry

Prizefighting ain't the noblest of arts and I ain't the noblest artist

Did Harry Greb really say that?

Im going to compile his most violent encounters in here.

Vs Frank Moody 1924


According to reports, Greb dominated the fight from the start. Moody described the experience as akin to "fighting a dozen men, or an octopus with gloves on." Early in the first round, Greb butted Moody under the chin, followed by a glove lace to the face and a thumb jab to Moody’s right eye, causing intense pain. Greb’s tactics kept Moody on the defensive, neutralizing his dangerous right hand by staying out of its range. In the fourth round, Greb landed a powerful right to Moody’s heart, sending him to the canvas. Moody rose but was overwhelmed by Greb’s relentless barrage. By the sixth round, after a savage beating, Greb knocked Moody out, though some accounts suggest questionable refereeing and a suspiciously short six-second count.

Moody later admitted he had no desire for a rematch, stating, “I knew I’d never get a shot at the title all the time Greb held it and, quite frankly, I didn’t mind a bit!”


Sounds like Moody was glad not to see Harry ever again! Thats some beating if this report is genuine

 

Ive been trying to find info on Bob Roper & Kid Norfolk before they fought Harry too see if they had a reputation for extreme violence like him or as W.O. McGeehan, who called it “The Manly Art of Modified Murder" and came across this great article from Harold Barnes,A judge who started out in the 1920s and scored Grebs last battle v Flowers.

'Let's abolish boxing.' (Satur-
day Evening Post, 231, 42
+,
October 25, 1958) was a ring judge for the last 37 years. In the time,

he wrote his report he was the

Senior Official of the

New York State Athletic Commission;

he estimates

that he was a ring judge at 6.000 boxing matches,

of whom were 2.000 main event and 100 world


There is one other statistic. I'm not at all proud of. I've seen

almost as much bloodshed in the rings as if I had been work-

ing in a Chicago slaughterhouse. I'm 63 years old now, and

I've seen enough. If I had the power to do so, I would outlaw

boxing. To put it blandly, I consider boxing legalized mur-

der."

"Since 1945 some 156 fighters have died from injuries inflicted

in the ring. This total takes in boxers all over the world -

both amateur and professional - and may not sound too stag-

gering. However, when you consider that there are more death

per number of participants in boxing than in any other sport,

you can get a better idea of the situation."


One

night

I watched

Marty

CROOS knock

Soldier

BARTFIELD all over the ring during a bout. Between rounds

some fellows kept going up and down the aisles offering to

bet on BARTFIELD. Since he was taking such a beating, no-

body could understand why anybody would want to bet on

him. However, BARTFIELD managed to survive until the

end of the fight, and then was declared winner by a decision."

"I felt that even without any experience I could judge a fight at

least as well as the men who gave BARTFIELD that decision.

So I applied for a license. I became a judge in April,

1921


Lots of info in there (Lamotta v Villemain) and near the end he wrote


Today I wonder if boxing was worth the saving. Looking

back over the years, I'm convinced the answer is no. I've seen

Harry Greb, perhaps the most vicious of all fighters, heel

and gouge an opponent's eye until it was closed tight.


Page 691


https://www.academia.edu/4626062/Pros_and_Cons_of_Boxing_Statements_by_Physicians_Officials

 

All these Bob Roper (Described as human punching bag) bouts,Seemed like Harry gave him some serious beatings until the last one when the crowd started jeering


I asked Ai about the Roper fights


The first fight between Harry Greb and “Captain” Bob Roper took place on **December 7, 1920**, at the Mechanics Building in Boston, Massachusetts. This 10-round no-decision bout is notable for showcasing Greb’s dominance over a larger heavyweight opponent and for its high-energy, one-sided action, as described in contemporary accounts. Below is a detailed report based on available historical sources, including *The Fight City*, *TSS.ib.tv*, BoxRec, and newspaper reports like the *Boston Daily Globe*, while addressing the limitations of the era’s documentation.


### Fight Overview

- **Date**: December 7, 1920

- **Location**: Mechanics Building, Boston, Massachusetts

- **Type**: No-decision bout, 10 rounds


- **Fighters**:


### The Fight

No complete round-by-round account survives, but the *Boston Daily Globe* and secondary sources like *TSS.ib.tv* provide a vivid depiction of the bout’s action, emphasizing Greb’s overwhelming dominance:


- **Greb’s Aerial Assault**: Greb’s signature “windmill” style was on full display, as he swarmed Roper with a dizzying flurry of punches from every angle. The *Boston Daily Globe* described Roper covering his face with both hands as a “sea of gloves” rained down, with Greb landing punches to the head, body, and neck in rapid succession. Greb’s speed and footwork prevented Roper from mounting a consistent offense, making the heavyweight appear slow and ineffective.


- **Roper’s Struggles**: Roper, despite his size and power, landed “no more than a half dozen shots,” per *TSS.ib.tv*. His attempts to use his jab or land heavy punches were thwarted by Greb’s head movement and relentless pressure. The *Globe* noted it was “laughable at times” when Roper stretched his neck to avoid Greb’s overhand punches, only for them to land anyway. Roper’s dirty tactics, such as thumbing or low blows, were likely attempted, given his reputation, but no specific fouls were reported, possibly due to Greb’s ability to outwork and outmaneuver him.


- **Physical Dynamics**: Greb’s infighting mastery shone, as he closed the distance to neutralize Roper’s reach and power. His ability to mix outside attacks with inside mauling frustrated Roper, who was reduced to a defensive stance by the later rounds. The *Globe* highlighted Greb’s “aerial assaults” being as effective as his close-range work, showcasing his versatility against a much larger opponent.


- **Intensity and Tone**: The fight was described as vintage Greb, with his non-stop aggression creating a one-sided spectacle. While not as brutal as Greb’s later bouts with Roper (e.g., November 1922, where Greb lost vision in his right eye), it was a high-energy thrashing that left Roper battered but standing. No knockout occurred, as Greb’s style prioritized volume over single-punch power, and Roper’s durability kept him upright.


- **Outcome**: The bout went the full 10 rounds, resulting in a no-decision per Massachusetts rules. However, Greb was awarded a unanimous newspaper decision, with the *Boston Daily Globe* and other local papers praising his clear superiority. The crowd, likely energized by Greb’s fan-favorite style, would have cheered his performance against the villainous Roper, whose snake-toting theatrics added to his heel persona.


### Post-Fight Impact



- **For Roper**: The loss highlighted Roper’s limitations against top-tier fighters. While he remained a durable gatekeeper, his inability to handle Greb’s speed and volume underscored his journeyman status. Roper continued fighting, facing Greb again in February 1921, with similar results.



- **Newspaper Bias**: Boston papers may have favored Greb, a dynamic crowd-pleaser, over Roper, whose dirty reputation and theatricality cast him as a villain. The *Globe*’s vivid language (e.g., “sea of gloves”) reflects the era’s colorful sportswriting but may exaggerate Greb’s dominance.



The 2nd fight in Denver went the same with Greb the unanimous victor but this went 12 rounds




3rd fight in the year vs Roper was a No-decision bout, 10 rounds bout

in Boston Mass



The *Boston Daily Globe*, as cited by *tss.ib.tv*, provides the most detailed account of the bout, describing Greb’s overwhelming dominance over Roper.



- **Key Incident with Referee**: In the sixth round, an unusual event occurred when Greb accidentally hit referee Joe O’Connor in the mouth, causing significant bleeding. O’Connor, as reported in *Wikipedia*, grabbed Greb around the waist and placed him on his stool to regain control of the situation. This incident briefly disrupted the fight but did not alter its outcome, as Greb resumed his dominance. The event underscores the chaotic, physical nature of the bout, with Greb’s wild style occasionally affecting even the officials.





1922 Grand Rapids 4th fight



For twelve rounds, Harry handed Bob “the beating of his life” and used him as a “human punching bag.” By the eighth round, the bigger man was fighting only to prevent being knocked out. Harry won another easy newspaper decision. Greb and Roper shake hands


Greb won the newspaper decision. (Chronicle Telegram) According to the Pittsburgh Post, Greb won easily. Roper fought him on even terms for the first four rounds, but after that Bob had to back away and cover up "continually" to avoid punishment. The Grand Rapids Herald said that Greb won clearly. "Roper started off fairly good and held his own for three or four rounds." After that Roper was outclassed. "In every move of the two men it was plain to be seen that Greb was a real fighter, his opponennt a husky whose main asset was ability to assimilate punishment without much visible effect. He kept going at a pace which was made to appear lumbering because his opponent was so much faster than he."


Greb loved to batter Roper


5th Fight November 1922


Another 12 round ND fight with Roper taking a hammering


The Pittsburgh Post reported that Roper entered the ring with a live snake draped around his neck! After he removed it, Greb moved in closer and buried Jack under a blizzard of flying leather. Roper took such a pasting that he was content to clinch and stall out man of the later rounds. According to Bill Paxton in The Fearless Harry Greb, Roper was thumbing or attempting to thumb Greb often in this fight. Based on assessments by opthalmologists familiar with retinal detachments, especially occurring to boxers, Paxton pinpoints this fight as probably being the one which finally cost Greb his sight in the right eye. To quote Paxton, "Unlike after the Kid Norfolk fight, when Greb didn't immediately go to a doctor, he was immediately seen with patches over his eyes days after this fight." This was Greb's last fight under the management of George Engel. He was under contract to Engel until December 29 and would not fight until after the contract lapsed. Also, Mrs. Greb was ill and Harry said that he would take a rest.

Last fight with Engel as Harrys boss

So all one sided hammerings so far

Final fight vs Roper Jan 1923 Pittsburgh 12 nd

Interesting reporting with Menke calling many fights "Prearranged affairs" Did Harry carry Bob in the previous affairs? I think he just loved to slowly massacre Bob Roper and went all a bit too extreme in the final fight with the crowd unhappy


https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...per&y=23&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

 

To add to the Roper fights

Greb fought Roper (Now trained by Jack Blackburn) a 3rd time later that year

The Pittsburgh Post additionally reported that it was a fast, clean battle and Roper suffered a severe eye cut in the first round.

 

Was his own eye targeted after the Gunboat Smith fight? Smith said himself early in the year of 1920 that "The ol eye's gone"

Couple of fights didnt seem to be on the level if you read the reports,Smith goes the distance with


Tony Melchior 10

Chuck Wiggins 10

Texas Tate 12

Bob Roper 15

Bob Roper 10


Capt Bob & Gunboat were training together for the Greb fight in Chicago after just going 25 rounds together! So ye them fights weren't on the level


Then vs Greb Gunboat is KO'd in 1 round!


Did Greb break the rules in this fight,The fighters unwritten rules between them? Written reports at the time of the fight do not paint a nice picture of Greb

"Smiths right eye was completely driven back from its socket"



https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...ith+&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=16


Larry Lichesnstein

"Greb jammed his glove encased thumb into the eye of Smith blinding him.." Larry has plenty more to say in this article with him saying Greb is known for this



https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...ith+&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=17


Smith did not mention Greb in the book "In this Corner" by Peter Heller.

From Comptons book

Years later Gunboat did say a thumb did the job but did say shortly after "Greb hit him harder than Carp & Dempsey and that poke in the eye is hardest i ever got and it stopped me on the spot”



Tempararily blinding a washed up Gunboat then a few brutal punches on the jaw sounds like something Bruce Lee or Ted Bundy would do

Harry did it first anyway


This might be the fight that Greb was seen as a dirty fighter and became a marked man by fighters,newspapermen and promoters?

Extremely unfortunate for him if it was a accident.I dont think it was.Yes he became middleweight champion but the Worlds Heavyweight title was on another planet at the time

Perhaps Tex Rickard put a block on it with him spending obscene amounts on outdoor arenas,He didnt want Greb with his reputation spoiling the occasion with a foul.He wasnt the only promoter out there but he could guarantee major money for the Worlds Heavyweight Championship fight

 

Most of Greb’s reputation for being a dirty fighter comes from the sensationalized and myth-filled book by James Fair, entitled Give Him to the Angels, a work so full of exaggerations and outright lies that it was pulled from the shelves after only one printing due to threats of lawsuits by Greb’s family.

Fairs book hasnt been mentioned in this thread and im still on page 1

 

Dont need a awkward style to jab a thumb inside a eye tho.Them kangaroo leaps mentioned in that fightcity report,I’ll have $500 on heel of the glove coming up first

Judge Harold Barnes saw hundreds and mentions Greb first as chief thug

I think how dirty he was has been hidden or forgotten after the Klompton book

 

I agree,Im fascinated by dirty fighters.Its another set of skills in the armoury to deploy inside the battlefield.

Saddler,Pedroza,Galento its all there on film.Id love to see how Greb did it.Cleverly like Duran vs Moore or blatant like Galento v Louis? Can argue both were blatant but the lacing with two gloves down the face Duran gave Moore at the end of one of the rounds was beautiful

Recently i thought Andre Ward looked a world class thug in the dark arts

I know any criticism of Greb is not liked on here buthis fans shouldnt take any offence.Im a fan.They cant want Jack Dempsey locked up for low blows when Greb makes him look a Disney character

Chuck Wiggins might make Greb look a Disney character mind but he was ready to retaliate.



A accident vs Wiggins with what he got up to!

 

I did post a photograph of a fight report snippet for Greb v Wiggins there but it didnt appear? Is it possible to post photographs

 

Gotta fight report here of a fighter trying taking a chunk out of Grebs arm!

Harry was a product of his time and responded with even more barbaric violence