Muhammad Ali vs Alexander Povetkin

Bonevida was more clumsy than Povetkin and threw his punches too far out against Ali, he also leaned his head back while punching to try and avoid getting countered, Povetkin`s head movement is far more skilled.

 

Ali never watched footage of fighters, I don`t think Dundee ever sat down with his fighters to watch footage of his fighters opponents, and thee was no footage or videos to watch Ali`s opponents, but Ali`s prep for fights was very lazy minded, he used to think on the job and then do better in a rematch, I`d say there`d be a very good chance of Ali walking onto a hook like he did v Cooper, but then coming back more prepare in the rematch just like he did in the 2nd fight against Cooper.

 

We do not know this.
I actually do not believe in such kind of claims. Looks like just PR talks.

Most likely Dundee had watched all his boxer's next opponent's fights with vigour. Not only pro fights btw.

 

Some serious over rating of Ali here. Serious question is it because of his status because he wasn't anywhere near as good as people make out and gets brutally KOed by Povetkin

 

We seem to be on the same page with a lot of this. I don't know if Ali takes Povetkin seriously until/unless he gets in trouble though. I can see him playing around, getting caught, then getting down to business.

He'd definitely have more trouble landing against Ali than he would against a more come forward opponent, but he's not totally without options. His quick step forward/leaping left hook would be a potent weapon at any stage of the fight, as would his dip counter right over the jab. Ali also rarely spent the whole fight on the outside; against come forward fighters he'd tend to find himself at some stage against the ropes where his general recourse was to adopt a high guard and throw quick flurries of counter punches till he could get free again, or else tie up his opponents in a loose neck clinch (not the limpet hug that Wlad employed but one that still let fighters generate a degree of power in their shots).

There are definitely more similarities between Frazier and Povetkin than most of Ali's better opponents, and I agree with your breakdown for the most part, but there are some additional key differences that I think could potentially favour Povetkin (bearing in mind my initial prediction of a points win for Ali). First off, Frazier was a very flat-footed fighter; I don't mean that in a derogatory way here, but he would need to have his feet set to throw shots, and that gave opponents a tiny window of opportunity to slip away as he was doing so. Povetkin isn't the most fleet-footed guy himself, but he has that slight lightness in his step that lets him throw torqued, hook type shots without necessarily having to set his feet completely, and close distance very efficiently.

With Frazier he tended to slog forward using his erratic head movement to close distance on longer opponents till he could get within hook range, at which point he'd let them rip with savage intensity. With Povetkin his modus operandi against taller opponents is generally to keep at mid to long range, bobbing slightly on his feet and using less exaggerated head movement to avoid shots till he can leap forward with (generally) a long left hook that gets him into close range, at which point he goes to work with several more quick follow up shots before moving out again.

Point of all this is that Ali wouldn't just be dealing with a slightly larger, less effective Frazier, but a fighter who he'd need to be on guard against at all ranges. There wouldn't be the grueling mental and physical pressure of Frazier to deal with, but he'd need to be switched on at all times.

Regarding power, I'd actually argue that Frazier might have hit harder with his left than Povetkin, since he got a lot more spite into it, while Povetkin could sometimes arm punch it as part of a combination to open fighters up to more damaging shots. Frazier could just bludgeon you down with endless heavy shots out of that wide braced stance. Povetkin was rarely ever about brute force and much more about nailing guys with pinpoint shots they weren't braced for or couldn't defend against. That's why I think the Joe Louis comparison is more apt (though not too helpful in this particular discussion).

I'm not sure I agree here. I think it would be a danger shot in the way that Povetkin threw it, very short and generally little telegraphing. And he'd tend to follow it up with another leaping left hook, which could be a very dangerous combination against a fighter already half buzzed. If Ali got lazy with his jab (which he sometimes did) I could see Povetkin timing him and catching him with a good one.

I still think Povetkin's best chances come on the outside, where he can time single shots through lulls in Ali's guard and catch him clean. On the inside I can see him landing more shots, but not especially damaging ones.

I don't see Povetkin cutting off the ring like Frazier did because of the above points, but I can see him closing distance on Ali in the early rounds with his quicker feet (than Frazier's). I think Ali's jab is a real problem for him and likely the fight decider, but I see it acting more as a deterrent disrupting Povetkin's ability to impose his own rhythm on the fight. I don't think Pov deals with the tying up at all, but rather waits for the ref to break them up then attempts to get at him again. That would give Ali valuable breathing room and allow him to neutralise Povetkin for large swathes of the fight, which would see him win a decision.

So yeah I think we've mostly come to the same conclusions here, though through slightly different reasoning.

 

LOL

 

OSCAR hit very hard ask joe fraizer.....

 

.....and who has he ever beaten to support your dubious opinion

 

Yeah and Henry Cooper chinned the great one, whats your point?

Povetkin doesn't beat him, but he certainly gives him problems and plenty to think about. Ali isn't have an easy night

 

Not much.

Doesn't matters that much. Frazier had better hooks and half hooks to the head, definitely. I don't mean power but this was stuff where Frazier had high level talent. Povetkin : more complicated aresanl with punches he was good to deliver properly.

Depneds from Ali version.
With Ali 1960-1968 prime Povetkin not likely was able to do anything serious, not alone to hurt this or defeat this Ali.

 

To his defense, looks that vs this Ali version no one from current HW, CW top was able to do anything serious.
Ali in 70 ies is different question. Not likely this version even was capable properly hit Ali own version from 60 ies.

 

Let's ignore Povetkin struggling with a chubby hunter and Huck, and his far inferior Stamina. I'm starting to think he is a little overrated

 

That was my opinion years ago back when I was mainly on classic. I was just always really annoyed that every matchup had comments completely disregarding any analysis. Every matchup would just straight up favor past fighters without a single thought. Tbf, styles do favor Povetkin here, but he doesn’t have the gas tank, ring iq, or adaptability to beat Ali.

 

Povetkin lost to AJ. Considering AJ is a dreadful boxer, Ali KOes Povetkin.

 

LOL

Of course Ali crushes him.