Champion s Forever.

Norton on his plan v Foreman. 'I was gonna back up, then back up, then catch him with a counter'. 'What happened?'. 'Well, I backed up, backed up, backed up some more, then I fell over...'. Was also good hearing Norton talking about Ali being the first one to visit him in hospital after his accident. Great video.

 

Anyone know what the beef was with Ken and Larry? I didn't realise there was so much enmity. I'm really curious to know.

This will be unpopular as he is revered on this board but Joe Frazier came over as a total arse. There was a documentary filmed nearly 20 years later, The Thilla in Manila, which told the story from Joe's side. Showed how appallingly Ali had behaved and yet, still, Joe came across as a thoroughly bitter and dislikeable man. He was badly advised throughout his rivalry with Ali. Ali was hardly a Mensa member - "he's ugly ... he's a gorilla ... he's an Uncle Tom" - not the most intelligent barbs and shouldn't have been all that hard to push back on. It should never have escalated how it did.

Foreman , for all his cuddly charisma, seems quite shy and reserved. And it was good to see how respectful he was towards Larry Holmes. Saying he was even better than Ali. Also nice to see Larry return it when Reggie Jackson pointed out they hadn't fought and Larry said "Thank God.". Larry has the rep for being bitter but he came over okay in this, although Frazier was the poster boy for bitterness.

Great film. I had the video but not with the meal. That was all new to me. I think they shortened the Ali hand speed joke. In reality, I believe Joe had hit some hands ten times and was expecting Ali to do likewise, as a test of who had the greater speed, so felt humiliated when Ali just said 'Wanna see it again?'. Or so I've read.

 

Foreman sort of carried it..Larry was alright. It was sad to see the bad shape Ken Norton was in though his mind was still sharp. Ali was still pretty funny. Joe was smashed.

 

Harsh. Kenny is too big a part of the 1970s story not to feature in this brilliant doc (which I borrowed from my mate's dad and kept hold of it for 3 years). And the awarded title, while true, was always in the works even before the Young eliminator. Basically a case of the "winner gets Ali OR if he refuses the fight, they will become the champ 'retrospectively'".

 

That’s great.

I had the VHS too.

I think it was from 1988/89.

 

Yeah.

It’s crazy when you look back, and you realise that George and Larry were still active at this point.

It was 1989.

I watched it as a kid.

I think that George had just started his comeback.

Larry had lost to Mike the previous year.

But to think that George would reclaim a portion of the title 5 years later, and that Larry would still be fighting Evander and Mercer, 4 years later.

Incredible.

 

So what? The Doc is called Champions Forever, the only reason he's in it is because he was HANDED the title. He never legit won it. If we're going on just who was "too big a part of the 1970s" they could've added Quarry, Shavers, Lyle, etc but they didn't because of the name of the film "champions" Ken is only in it again because he was handed the blet which he quickly lost to Holmes in his next fight.

 

I always held out to meet Foreman one day. I’m no fan boy but I might’ve swooned just a little in his presence.

RIP Big Man.

 

He legit beat Ali in the rubber. Do you disagree? Ali was simply too big a name/attraction for boxing to give up.

Lost in his belt in his next fight/first defence?

Small detail - old Norton was past his best and it was a razor thin loss to no less than ATG Larry Holmes, officially and in reality.

If Ken’s name was Ali for that fight, there’s no small chance that the judges would’ve awarded him a UD over Larry.

 

And went legitimately 2-0-1 vs Ali and about a draw w Holmes …

 

Yes he gave boxers like Ali and Holmes trouble, but he never WON the title.