Oleksandr Usyk is clearly the best fighter of the 21st century uncontested.

Couldn't agree more

 

Zhang and Parker both beat Wilder.

Lamon Brewster, Corrie Sanders, and Anthony Joshua beat Wlad. Corrie Sanders did it far more impressively than Fury.

So it seems like a stretch to claim beating them make Fury some H2H beast even vis a vis cruiserweights. There are certainly cruiserweights I would pick to beat those guys.

Daniel Dubois is one of Usyks better wins at heavyweight and former cruiserweight Kevin Lerena dropped him 3 times and nearly took him out.

 

Wilder didn't face enough top guys to have a good barometer of how good he was. So it is hard to know how much credit Fury deserves for beating him. His resume leaves lots of room for interpretation.

As far as the Wlad win goes, Wlad was past prime and the division seems to have improved since his time so how you evaluate the win comes down to the following among other issues
How far had Wlad deteriorated from his peak?
How much did he decline between the Fury and Joshua fights?
How much better was the post-Klitschko era relative to the Klitschko era?

 

So which is it, are you lying or stupid?

 

When did I say Cunningham was great? You claimed Fury was "exposed" and "weak to cruisers/smaller heavies" when he beat every cruiser/smaller heavy he faced. It makes no sense. Everyone has fights where they struggle. It's like saying Povetkin "exposed" Joshua's weakness to shorter fighters with good left hooks when Joshua beat the breaks off Povetkin and stopped him.

No one said Fury has an amazing resume or the most remarkable undefeated streak, you keep arguing against points I never made. Fury being undefeated is just a cherry on top of the other things that make Usyk's win remarkable.

You could do this with anyone's resume.

You aren't saying anything no one hasn't already said a million times.

I watched Wilder's while career unfold. I'm aware he was losing practically every round in both fights against Ortiz. That doesn't matter. What matters is who won, and Wilder knocked him out both times. That's WHY he was dangerous, at any point Wilder can land a nuclear power punch turning things around and that's why Fury dismantling him was impressive.

So stop copy pasting boring, unoriginal talking points from 2019 to discredit Wilder, it isn't helping your dumb argument.

I didn't sweep anything under the rug, I literally made threads criticizing Fury struggling with Francis. It's like you're schizophrenic and arguing with voices in your head instead of responding to what's actually in my posts.

I don't give a **** if there were 5, 10, or 1,000 cruiserweights better than Cunningham, THEY DIDN'T BEAT FURY, USYK DID. SO THE CREDIT GOES TO USYK, NOT PEOPLE YOU "THINK" COULD'VE BEATEN FURY

Haye beating Valuev and Byrd beating Vitali, these are both uncommon and unusual events. Especially Byrd who was actually down on the scorecards and Vitali quit due to a freakish rotator cuff injury. If these the only examples you can bring up to try and pretend Usyk beating a much taller, heavier, younger skilled opponent isn't a big deal, you're an idiot and you need to stop wasting my time. It was a rhetorical question.

Spinks and Holmes were nearly the same height, Holmes was past his prime.

Willard was inactive for 4 years and didn't have 20% of Fury's skill.

The only valid examples you have of smaller cruiserweight sized fighters beating a much larger, skilled world class opponent is Holyfield vs Bowe...!!! And that was nearly 30 years ago!

You will do everything in your power to avoid giving Usyk credit. This is insanity.

 

Oh so one can't be vulnerable to a certain style and overcome it after a hard night's work ? It doesn't matter how much one struggles with certain qualities and gets floored, put on bambi legs ? Fury still overcame mediocre Cunningham despite a life and death fight, so this must mean any other cruiserweight that is capable of beating Fury must be all time great worthy lol, because Cunningham wasn't capable of beating Fury right ? Fury fought dirty and arguably should've been disqualified for the KO. Fury was exposed in more ways than one

"Unoriginal talking points" "stop talking sense and change the subject" who was Wilder beating again that made him this top 5 guy ? How old was Ortiz ? These are some interesting questions. If geatric Ortiz was so difficult, I see why Wilder was avoiding Klitschko and the top guys. An old Povetkin would've had an excellent chance at knocking him out. He has massive power, so do other bums. Wilder was a fringe contender who kept the belt warm. Good win on paper

Then it's perplexing you call the Fury win all time great worthy after all the available information. Notice how instead of fighting top contenders back to back in his comeback (which exponentially increases the odds of taking a loss) he fights bums like Sefari, Pianeta, Schwartz, Wallin, Chisora trilogy, the same limited guy 3 times and a 37 year old UFC fighter and he almost lost that one. This affects legacy. I don't care if you want to dismiss it, in my opinion it brings Fury down, that and more is why I don't rate the win as highly as you do. This debate can really end here

"They didn't beat Fury" Fury didn't fight them, also the credit is there, just not an all time great win. Look at the sample size if you want some statistics, Fury claims Cunningham was his hardest fight even post wilder trilogy, Fury fought 2 cruiserweights his whole career. Got dropped in both fights, got outboxed in both fights, but Usyk is better than Cunningham and beat Fury. Both of them gave Fury a much harder fight than all other SHWs in the division. It's a logical deduction, Fury doesn't dominate cruiserweights. Never has, never will. Is it starting to click ?

Fury was also past his prime. Holmes had 20+ pounds on Spinks, undefeated, didn't look like trash against low level opponents prior and is more skilled than Fury so I would expect those qualities to iron it out, which is why Spinks win is much better anyway. Jack Dempsey doesn't have 20% percent of Usyks skill and is much smaller than Usyk so that should balance it out, correct ? Uncommon ≠ Special, and Byrd gave Vitali a lot of trouble prior.

I should let you know I've witnessed a 6'5 270 undefeated heavyweight prospect named Federico Pacheco struggle with a 6 foot 190 pound cruiserweight journeyman and get wobbled by a left hand, by your logic he should've obliterated that guy. Yeah no i don't buy the status quo that top tier super heavyweights can only be beaten by great talents, the reality is super heavyweights aren't exposed to top 10 cruiserweights. Michael Hunter drawing with Povetkin and beating Bakole was a huge red flag, because Usyk already beat him. And keep in mind no relevant cruiserweights besides those 2 moved up. Funny right ? Okolie might be another watch out for him. Briedis smoked a high level journeyman in Charr, he could've done something

Bowe would probably ice Fury btw

 

People know Usyk, just not how elite he really is

 

There are plenty of examples of cruiser sized fighters beating much larger ranked opponents
(from 2000 onwards)
Byrd-Vitali
Byrd-McCline
Sanders-Wlad
Chagaev-Valuev
Haye-Valuev
Chambers-Dimitrenko
Ruiz-Joshua
Kabayel-Zhang

just off the top of my head

 

In all fairness Dubois broke his ankle.

 

Dude, Sanders was a big boy!

 

Heavyweight Usyk is almost exactly the same size as Sanders

 

225 to 239 is not a cruiserweight, as you indicated.

 

Dude come on. You have to expect some push back when you make these kinds of claims. He’s just not the best of 21st century. He’s only fought 23 times ffs. He’s not dynamic and he’s not so dominant that he looks unbeatable like a Roy Jones, Manny Pacquiao or Mayweather. And say what you want about Roy Jones and PED’s but judge from his early career, he was still an explosive freak of nature. Usyk can pump as many roids, SARMs or whatever and still wouldn’t be able to perform at that level.

 

Cannot agree more ! He is the only fighter who carries his balls around the belly button and he is the only fighter of the entire division who is brave enough to face jake paul !

 

When did I ever defend the notion that Usyk was the GOAT? In fact, I've argued against that very claim.

Indeed, as I noted, I have no quarrel with push back against that kind of hyperbole. Rather, Im talking about the open hostility the guy faces from a certain quarter of this board (like clowns suggesting that Usyk is a "ducker". Does that sound like a legit criticism?).

Is there legit criticism of Usyk? Of course. Never claimed otherwise. But I've also been around enough to spot the difference, and I know that country of origin and color matter to some people. To think otherwise is embarrassingly naive, my dude.