Moses Itauma vs Anthony Joshua

I was an AJ fan and thought for a time that he could potentially dominate for a few years but, he's been shown to be an elite level athlete, not s fighter. His mentality is also all over the place: tentative as all hell against 300+ib Ruiz and stupidly brave against Dubois while also thinking he could outbox one of the greatest amateur boxers of all time.

Itauma is a natural, rhythm fighter, with fast twitch muscles and the instinctive reflexes to match. His counter punching really is on point and he has the confidence of an undefeated fighter while AJ needs a whole team of sycophants to build him up. AJ is done bar the Fury fight unless someone like Wardley, Parker or Hrgovuc picks up a belt and even then I think he's a sizeable underdog.

 

A little thought experiment; we all know Joshua has flaws that were exposed when he stepped up in opposition. But if he fought Itauma's list of opponents, and he came out swinging for the fences from round one as Itauma does, then what would be the outcome? Almost certainly he would obliterate these opponents early doors as Itauma did. So whilst Itauma is evidently talented he has not fought the opposition that could evidence if he has the heart, chin and stamina to make it at world level.

 

Well I actually don't think itauma hits harder than parker. In this fight his opponent kust went down from timing and shot placement mostly. He stood up easily enough after thr hits and was not done fighting. Not one of the punches itauma threw were even close to some of parkers harder shots against joyce for example or like the one that put bakole out of their fight.

Don't get me wrong I am mightily impressed by itauma and I think his ceiling is possibly higher than parkers. But we don't know it yet and fighting world champion calibers I don't expect him to ko guys easily but probably he might have to go the full rounds for lack of power.

Right now he profits off of great timing movement and skills. He is far from being a foreman, liston, klitschko etc in the power department.

 

What makes you say that? He's scoring one-punch knockdowns consistently. If he were getting KO's off timing and placement, he wouldn't so consistently be knocking guys down with single punches. Usually the timing/placement guys spend a while softening opponents up, and then score the knockdown/knockout off a great shot. Ituama seems to be able to knock a completely unhurt man right to the canvas with a good shot. How's that any different than Foreman, Liston, Wlad?

Look, I'm not some crazy person making proclamations about a dude with all of 12 fights. But the evidence we have sure does seem to suggest he's got big power.

 

Joshua is tough and experienced, not yet.

 

What do you mean by tough ?

 

Guys I want to like Itauma and see him come up, but the hipster in me feels like I have to go against the grain, and with threads like these it makes it hard to support him, especially against Joshua.

Joshua would have beaten everyone of Itauma's opponents in pretty similar fashion, especially when he was on the come up. Itauma has faced nothing similar to what Joshua has faced in the quality of opponents. On top of that, Joshua is a relatively safety first fighter these days, Dubois is a very come forward fighter with power which is not something we have seen Itauma do.

Whats to stop Joshua just sitting back on his superior reach and jabbing all night, something Joshua is comfortable doing, where as we haven't seen Itauma come forward and overcome things like that. The more I think on it, the more I see gaps in Itauma's experience or what we have seen from him.

Sure he looks great and hope he continues to develop and does well, but everyone does ~12 fights in. Are his wins really that much better or more impressive than Joshua's, Parker's or Fury's first dozen for example?

 

AJ is so much more experienced proven than Itauma. People really underestimate experience on here.

Itauma has just beaten a good journeyman in Balogun, there are levels to this. Whereas AJ has beaten many good contenders and was the unified champion. Its silly having this conversation ATM. If Itauma is actually beating weak contenders like Chisora, Hrgovic, Whyte, etc - then we can have this conversation.

If they fought now - AJ would knock out Itauma and early.

 

Now? AJ although I wouldn't put money on it.
Itauma as he is now vs AJ at 12 fights into his career is more interesting to me

 

*Tough fight for itauma.
I'm trying to use my English skills without using translation, but I make some mistakes

 

Well I might be wrong. I had the same kind of impression you do now, but in his recent fight I saw him repeatedly knock down a guy who had no trouble getting up afterwards.

In his fights before that it was already apparent that he is quite the speedster with great timing coordination and technique and willingness to fight.

But it is hard to really judge power when knocking out people on a way lower level that are not prepared to take your shots and don't see them coming. I don't know if his recent opponent scratches the top 100 but I guess no...

As it is with these kind of opponents itauma has no problem commiting to hard shots amidst the action. His opponents are not tricky and dangerous enough for him. And he has the advantage of his speed to put his full force in these short time gaps he sees, because he is so quick. He would be in trouble with a good counter puncher that can afford to take his punches in order to land his own.

Much of this is to the credit of Itauma. Great speed and timing and also a very good eye and generally being totally out of the league of your opponents are not really bad attributes. I am a fan of his, definitely and hope he can conquer the division in a few years as he has a great eye-pleasing style that reminds me of past eras rather than the currently often preferred safety first approach.

But I don't expect him to be a puncher when he finally reaches the top 10. Look what quittaker did to his opponents before stepping up in level even a little bit. He also knocked out many of them but it became clear he won't be a puncher. At least that's the way I see it.

I expect Itauma to box rather and look for opportunities to hurt his opponents with smarts rather than with power and force. I expect him to slow down a lot in his approach when getting to opponents where he is not expected to knock them out. A Chisora-type would be a really mean opponent for him right now. He would have to box every round definitely. And his defense is not yet where it has to be. When under pressure he looked a bit vulnerable to me. Hope he gets the right opponents next.

The thing i fear most is that promoters might think their propaganda with youngest hw champion ever etc has worked so good that it is not worth risking Itaumas zero and thus he gets subpar opponents until he (like always in boxing when a fighter has good hype behind him) inevitably gets his shot at the title, cashing out on the hype. Then he loses because of too little experience and then the real career starts where he has a few fights to sink or swim.

Obviously that would not be his optimal development. But promoters would get their investment back and more on top without risk and everything after would be bonus. Seems close to what happened with Dubois I think? Maybe I am wrong. Just a spontaneous idea.

And obviously if Itauma fought Joshua I expect Joshua to be able to put Itauma on the defensive and find the right spot to finish the fight. Even though Joshua has developed the way he has, he is way too good for an inexperienced youngster that fights against guys outside the top 100

 

"in his recent fight I saw him repeatedly knock down a guy who had no trouble getting up afterwards"

Someone back in 1973 -- "in his recent fight I saw Foreman repeatedly knock down Frazier who had no trouble getting up afterwards."

Some guys get up easily and basically have to be unconscious to not get up. Some guys either can't or won't get up when hurt bad but still conscious. Imo, it's the knockdowns itself that count, not so much the response to them.

As to Quittaker, he never looked like a puncher. He was knocking opponents out with flurries. He wasn't drilling them into the canvas with single shots. I'm not sure he's a good comparison.

If Ituama doesn't pan out to be that great, my guess is that there is a chin problem, a recovery problem, a stamina problem, a crumble under adversity problem, etc. I think his power, reflexes, and speed are the real deal. Time will tell.

As to Chisora -- dear god no. Don't do that to either of them. That ends with one of them seriously hurt, and I don't know which.

AJ? I'm with you. Too experienced.

My plan for Ituama -- about 8-10 more tomato cans, one every two months. But try to find ones with good chins. And after that, Wallin then Hrgovic. Wallin is tough and durable, will give him a nice test. Hrgovic is tough and durable, and has great timing with that right hand. Will be another step up. Or maybe Jared Anderson in there somewhere?

 

What stands out to me regarding Itauma is that does this dude require weight training?

He’s only 20 years old.

Itauma is a natural heavyweight with natural world class power and natural world class speed.

His ring generalship is improving with every fight due to world class trainers.

Unless he’s carrying a glass chin, who’s going to win in a serious exchange? Dubois?

His question marks are can he take a bomb and is his stamina world class.

I’m a fan of the best coming through, Itauma ko’s Joshua.

 

He does a lot of weight training, I follow his S&C coach on social media. I've seen a video of him bench pressing 170 kg, incredibly strong for his age.

 

Is the weight training to maintain or to gain do you think?