How Much Do You Agree With These, Regarding Prime Tyson V Frazier?

Here's the issue I have.

Whilst Frazier is great he's unproven against KO artists he didn't fight and beat the likes of Mac Foster, Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle, etc.

The only evidence we have of Frazier against a big punching KO artist is Foreman and whilst you could say Foreman also had other advantages which made it worse for Frazier stylistically. Still Frazier is not really proven against a stylistic challenge of a KO artist.

For me Tyson is quicker, 15 pounds heavier, better chin, better combination puncher, and I do not see Frazier as a good stylistic match up against Tyson.

Yes Frazier could stop fighters early but he could also be a bit vulnerable at times early or atleast a slow starter until he starts "smoking" if you will.

I don't see a fighter being able to beat Tyson by just standing in the trenches exchanging punches especially when Tyson is significantly quicker with a better offense.

 

Pretty much agree with everything you said but to add on to this all the fighters he stopped early where all small heavyweights/crusierweights he never showed he can stop an actual heavyweight early like Tyson without first wearing them down and even then it wasn't a guarantee

 

For as great as he was when he got smoking, Joe was a slow starter. That could be a death sentence against Tyson.

Joe gets hurt and dropped early, comes back but can't quite recover and gets stopped in 5.

 

Frazier vs Tyson is a terrible mismatch for Joe. He would be fighting his 2.0 self - faster, stronger, more explosive, better trained, able to throw a lot more punches, combinations and get into the fight a lot earlier. By the time Frazier got into a rhythm she would probably be finished. Ron Lyle would be a much tougher opponent for Tyson. I respect Joe a lot, he's a great fighter but he has absolutely nothing for Tyson.

 

Joe Frazier is my alltime favorite fighter. At his best he was a great heavyweight. Nobody had a bigger heart.

Tyson blasts Joe out early, perhaps the very first round. Joe may likley finish on his feet but the referee will be forced to intervene. Tyson at his best had great quickness and accuracy.

The combinations with explosive power in every punch. With either hand. The uppercut is a problem for Frazier. Foreman put him down with a right uppercut. He didnt have Tyson's speed. Mando Ramos hurt Joe with his uppercut early.

Smokin Joe is outgunned here. Mainly its the speed of Tyson.

 

This is easy for me. No-one ever lasted coming forward at Tyson. Even Holyfield took great care with blitz attacks then quick clinches with plenty of good clinch work and butts. He used loads of spoiling among his excellent flurries.

To make it even more simple Frazier's not going to clinch or spoil one iota. He's going to get ripped coming in and even on his favored ground the uppercut is always looming. Frazier's only chance for mine is to hurt Tyson badly early and stay on him. That's long odds. It's a Tyson stoppage every day for me.

 

Any comparison with Tyson goes in his favor thanks to the glazing

 

I am not denying that Joe is going to be hit and hurt early by Tyson. Sure Joe is going to be in deep waters and maybe even gets knocked down, but IMO he endures and there is not early stoppage.

- Tyson thrived on being the one dictating the pace and distance of the fight in order to unleash his combos, but Joe was also a pressure fighter who would be on Tyson's face, close and personal. Tyson won't have a lot of time and space to set his attacks. How confortable was Tyson backpedaling and fighting on the backfoot?

- Joe's defensive skills were actually solid. His bob and weave would help to fend Tyson, who is going to miss a lot and will be forced to get even closer to get the pressure going, therefore making himself vulnerable to Joe's attacks.

- I have no doubt Joe is going to take a lot of punches, but Tyson is not going to have a field day. Joe was a natural born inside fighter and his left hook is also going to find his mark eventually, regardless Tyson's amazing peekaboo style.

- As I mentioned before Joe was very tough and resilent, thus even if he is dropped, chances are he is going to be back on his feet. Jamaica Foreman clocked him six times in and was unable to keep Joe down. I doubt Tyson is able to do better.

Thus, We will have to agree to disagree.

 

The fact that Joe is a pressure fighter doesn't work in his favor, my friend. The fact that he fights close doesn't work in his favor. The fact that he almost exclusively hits with hooks doesn't work in his favor. Tyson had the jab, he had the uppercut, he had the cross, he had the combination of those punches. What other fighter similar to Tyson did Frazier beat? Oscar Bonavene who threatened him? Frazier weighed less than Michael Spinks. And yes, Tyson could have backed up, he could have gone sideways, Joe only went forward and didn't have the jab.

 

This is quite possibly the worst matchup imaginable for Frazier. He gets blasted out early every time against Mike until the ref waves it off.

 

I am going to state my opinion this way: In multiple prime fights, I believe Mike Tyson beats Joe Frazier most times, but not every time.

 

The Frazier who beat Ali would never lose to Tyson. It would never happen. Smokin Joe was a much better defensive figher than was Mike Tyson. Frazier was very good at bobbing and weaving and actually he wrote the book on it. Frazier also had a granite chin and never tired. Frazier was knocked down by Foreman six times but never quit. Tyson had different build and style from Foreman’s and the advantages Foreman had over Frazier, Tyson would not have. Tyson had no heart and never went into deep waters like Smokin Joe did. Frazier was willing to absorb incredible amounts of punishment and keep going. Joe had less than 40 fights in his career because of the punishment he was willing to take. Frazier never laid out in the ring and quit like Tyson did. No way Tyson beats a 1971 version of Ali but it’s quite probable Frazier beats Buster Douglas in Tokyo.

 

Tyson, early.

 

Every pro Frazier argument here is contingent on Frazier being mentally tougher than Tyson.

Who cares? Frazier was miles mentally tougher than Foreman too and that didn't help.

That and idk why people keep on saying "Tyson is different to Foreman" as if you need to be George Foreman to beat Joe Frazier. Mike is so much more accurate than George, and has such a massive improvement in hand speed it's not even funny.

Frazier isn't bobbing and weaving his way into a spotless fight with prime Mike Tyson. Frazier got hit so often than Dwight Qawi Muhammad was insulted when he was compared to him lol. Hell 70's Ali connected with 40% of his power punches Vs FOTC Frazier but we're supposed to believe Mike wouldn't be able to take him out?