Could Sonny Liston have made it undefeated vs Louis title defenses?

No loses to Conn, Pastor, Walcott and maybe few others I can't think of right now

 

haha

 

I didn’t see much of Pastor but yeah Walcott and Conn probably have Sonny covered, you’d need to try very, very hard to make me think an injured Machen is proof he could beat either. Conn was a league above Ali as a pure boxer if he was the same size as Ali we wouldn’t have heard of Joe Louis.

 

Funny? Why? Because Liston beat an injured Machen? Or Folley? The only guy he fought that was that good beat him really easily.

 

Same fast moving lighter fighter as those two though bit worse then both

 

no one knows, Sonny's problem was bad management and lack of discipline. If it had been different, he could have been unbeatable in the 60s as well. A bit of luck.

 

Yeah right.So if only Conn had an extra 37 lbs of lean muscle on his frame,possessed the fastest feet in boxing
history,and quite possibly the fastest hands in boxing history,he would have been just as formidable as Ali.
My word,you really are clutching at straws here.

 

I said Conn is better at pure boxing, pure boxing anyone who says otherwise is a clown lol. I base it on Machen’s words and film. Most people understand what they’re seeing in that fight he injured his right. If Machen was on his bestest day of them all he still is a 2nd rate HW. Kick rocks nerd.

 

No. John Henry Lewis for one beat someone with a longer reach than him without being able to see.

But if we start him off in the 40s(like new years 1940) he might have a fighting chance. Still probably doesn't but he could.

 

So Machen was carrying an injury into his fight with Liston ? Evidence ? Oh please don't say you're
taking Machen's word on this.

 

He didn't have that long a prime, so probably not.

 

I'll go through a couple of notable Louis opponents and this includes pre title fights as well. I'll start with Primo Carnera

Primo vs Liston may seem like a mismatch at first but take into consideration that Primo would much larger than liston and he brings some qualities which Liston hasn't really dealt with. Carnera would be the physically strongest fighter that Liston ever fought. I doubt Liston would be able to outmuscle carnera and Carnera wouldn't have a reach disadvantage either. Carnera also had a lot of heart and would get up if he got knocked down... Which will be a lot. Liston's advantages are that he's a devastating puncher with solid technique and I don't think Carnera's advantage in raw strength would be that significant. Liston really shouldn't have trouble landing on Carnera and when he does He'd at minimum take a hefty beating. I just don't think Carnera has the attributes to survive Liston for 15 rounds. Mid Round TKO for the bear. Now onto another Baer

Maxie like carnera would have numerous attributes which Liston hasn't dealt with. He would be the hardest puncher Liston ever fought and that includes cleveland williams Max baer had a great Jaw as well and could take a strong punch. In spite of these attributes though I actually think this would be an easier fight for Carnera than Liston was. Simply because of Baer's mindset. I think Baer would be more scared of Liston than Louis and would be either outpointed or TKO'd by Liston for that factor alone.

Max Schmeling was Joe Louis' conquerer in his first fight and honestly I think Liston could struggle. Max had a good chin and was an effective technical fighter. I also think that Schmeling was a class above most of the fighters that Liston beat excluding Floyd patterson(who's style was Suicide against Liston) and Ali(who's in a different class compared to Schmeling.) I'd even give Schmeling a chance to knock Liston out. He was knocked down by Marshall in one of their fights so while his chin was solid I don't think it was unbreakable for a fighter of schmelings caliber. Liston however has a major reach advantage as well as an ATG Jab. Was a better technical boxer than Baer could ever dream of being. And while I don't think Liston hit as hard as baer he was in that class. And while it's true that Baer fouled in the Schmeling fight. Fouling isn't exactly outside of Liston's playback either. Liston probably by mid to late KO after taking some hefty punishment.

Jame's J Braddock. I think Liston crushes him honestly. Liston again is a better fighter than Baer will ever be has two fisted power and would probably beat him earlier than Louis did. No doubt Liston had a better chin than Louis in my view. Braddock doesn't really have any advantages in this fight.

 

195 pound Braddock is better than Schmeling IMO. His mix of LHW talent with durability, size and power is a very rare combination. Not that Liston couldn't win but Braddock is a bad matchup for all power guys. Whatever you say about Braddocks WL record he had an amazing SOS and the only guy to truly stop him was prime Joe Louis. Not a lot of guys won lopsided decisions against him either like Liston v Machen. He lost a lot of close 10 rounders to very good fighters.

Braddock at Max's weight might hit as hard as Baer or be close. Braddock was fighting underweight for his size but the fact he was confident enough in his power to even attempt the Fitzsimmons and Wilder way says a lot.

Louis was one of those fighters who was easier to knock down than out. Theres 2 types of chin because being knocked off your feet and being put to sleep are two different things and you can vulnerable to one and not the other. Not that Louis's chin was granite or anything but that really only becomes a factor if a fighter can match Louis blow for blow. Someone whose otherwise losing ain't going to catch Louis and put him nighty night because he has a weak chin.