Why is Frazier ranked aboved Tyson?

newurban99 · Jun 9, 2025 at 1:50 AM

AntonioMartin1 said: ↑

Frazier gets a lot of mileage for his win against Ali.

The thing is he beat a prime or near prime Muhammad Ali and Tyson beat none near that good and the win over Holmes was seen as a win over a slightly over the hill or just plain over the hill, comebacking Holmes. See the difference?

But yes, Frazier tends to be seen as bigger than he was, but also you have to remember, Frazier's own prime was lost in the first Ali fight. He was diabetic and had high blood pressure and spent two weeks in a hospital after the fight so he was taylor made for Foreman afterwards.

All things considered I guess you could argue for each to be better than the other. Frazier had more but his career was cut short by the great fights he was involved in. Tyson had less but he was fed with what was best in the 80s and none of them, except Tyson himself, could hold Ali, Frazier or Foreman's shoes.

I want to see a Frazier-Tyson fight on Sierra Championship Boxing.
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Foreman would've beaten Joe regardless of when they fought.

AntonioMartin1 said: ↑

Sonya! Where have you been?
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People who followed Joe Frazier's career as it was unfolding will remember his greatness. He dominated the division during Ali's absence and did it spectacularly, and then he whipped Ali upon his return. And while the fact that Joe was a better man than Tyson shouldn't be the decisive factor, I think it should be a consideration. He respected himself and didn't bring shame upon the sport. This matters to some people.

MaccaveliMacc · Jun 9, 2025 at 3:03 AM

Frazier and Tyson have similar resumes but Frazier has the biggest win and Tyson has the biggest losses.

Jakub79 · Jun 9, 2025 at 5:28 AM

I think both are historically underrated..Frazier doesn't get enough credit for Ali..
He actually beat the best Ali of those 3 fights, Ali near prime and did it in stunning fashion. Tyson on the other hand beat very good fighters in a way that made it look easy, too easy. Tyson in my opinion was more dominant, has more quality names and won in better style. Joe on the other hand has the biggest single HW win ever.

Ike · Jun 9, 2025 at 5:49 AM

A win over Ali in 1970 is a great victory and more important than wins over a 38-year-old Holmes who was returning after two years and over a great light heavyweight like Spinks in his last match of his career. And then Frazier (who was world heavyweight champion for 5 consecutive years) lost only to 2 boxers in his career, Ali and Foreman. Tyson didn't lose only to Holyfield, at 23 years old Iron Mike lost by knockout to Douglas.....

nyterpfan · Jun 9, 2025 at 6:43 AM

dmt said: ↑

Tyson is significantly more talented but Frazier only lost to 2 guys - one is almost unanimously regarded as the greatest heavyweight ever and the other is arguably the biggest punching heavyweight ever who later became champ at 45.

Frazier full filled his potential and was unlucky to run into prime Foreman.

Tyson was tremendous but the loss to Douglas and the 2 losses to Holyfield plus the 3 year prison lay off don't help.

Frazier beating Quarry twice is at least as good as beating heavyweight Spinks. I think Frazier's wins over Bonavena x 2, Ellis, Bugner, Machen and Doug Jones are comparable to Tyson's wins over Tucker, Thomas, Ruddock x 2, Bruno x 2, and Williams.

If i had to give a slight edge, I would say Tyson's resume is slightly better but not by a massive margin. Tyson beat bigger more powerful punchers while Frazier beat smaller, slightly more skilled ones.

The large difference is Frazier's magnificent win over a 29 year old Ali which is arguably one of the top 5 best wins in the history of heavyweight boxing. Ali may have been off for a long time but he was in good shape and he had just beaten Quarry and Bonavena. This win means Frazier's quality of wins overall is simply much higher.

If you consider their quality of wins plus the fact that one guy fulfilled his potential and the other did not, you can make a great case for Frazier being ahead.

The only slight gap in Frazier's resume is missing the 210 plus pound big hitters like Lyle and Shavers (whom i believe Frazier likely would have beaten) while Tyson did beat huge hitters like Ruddock and Bruno.
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EXCELLENT analysis--IMHO this nails it--well done!!

OddR · Jun 9, 2025 at 7:27 AM

I don't get that impression to me they get rated similar (some say Tyson some say Frazier) and casual fans would probably have Tyson higher.

Anton Frank · Jun 9, 2025 at 7:57 AM

Those were good responses. I guess the Ali win vs Douglas loss is ultimately the deciding factor.
The only thing I disagree with is about how everyone says that was the best the best version of Ali post-exile. Absolutely not. He looked totally average. 88 Tyson would have beaten that Ali for sure.
The best Ali post-exile was 73-74. Norton II, Frazier II and Zaire.

Anton Frank · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:09 AM

Also a few people mentioned Frazier only lost to two guys. So did Tyson! (Douglas and Holyfield).
Only a moron who DKSAB would count the Lewis loss as well.

Anton Frank · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:10 AM

Also a few people mentioned Frazier only lost to two guys. So did Tyson! (Douglas and Holyfield).
Only a moron who DKSAB would count the Lewis loss as well.

mr. magoo · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:31 AM

Anton Frank said: ↑

Also a few people mentioned Frazier only lost to two guys. So did Tyson! (Douglas and Holyfield).
Only a moron who DKSAB would count the Lewis loss as well.
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That’s fair. But I think most would argue that the two men who Frazier lost to both outrank Douglas and Holyfield. And Frazier at least has one victory over one of his conquerors. Tyson doesn’t Just an observation

swagdelfadeel · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:42 AM

bboyrei said: ↑

Frazier has the better resume even without the Ali win, he also has more heart than Tyson and the never give up warrior mentality. Also arguably better inside fighter, ring cutting, left hook, and head movement.
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There’s nothing arguable about Frazier being substantially better on the inside.

swagdelfadeel · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:42 AM

Anton Frank said: ↑

Also a few people mentioned Frazier only lost to two guys. So did Tyson! (Douglas and Holyfield).
Only a moron who DKSAB would count the Lewis loss as well.
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lol

OddR · Jun 9, 2025 at 8:49 AM

bboyrei said: ↑

Frazier has the better resume even without the Ali win, he also has more heart than Tyson and the never give up warrior mentality. Also arguably better inside fighter, ring cutting, left hook, and head movement.
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Tyson's head movement was better IMO got hit significantly less.

PRW94 · Jun 9, 2025 at 9:22 AM

dmt said: ↑

Tyson is significantly more talented but Frazier only lost to 2 guys - one is almost unanimously regarded as the greatest heavyweight ever and the other is arguably the biggest punching heavyweight ever who later became champ at 45.

Frazier full filled his potential and was unlucky to run into prime Foreman.

Tyson was tremendous but the loss to Douglas and the 2 losses to Holyfield plus the 3 year prison lay off don't help.

Frazier beating Quarry twice is at least as good as beating heavyweight Spinks. I think Frazier's wins over Bonavena x 2, Ellis, Bugner, Machen and Doug Jones are comparable to Tyson's wins over Tucker, Thomas, Ruddock x 2, Bruno x 2, and Williams.

If i had to give a slight edge, i would say Tyson's resume is slightly better but not by a massive margin. Tyson beat bigger more powerful punchers while Frazier beat smaller, slightly more skilled ones.

The large difference is Frazier's magnificent win over a 29 year old Ali which is arguably one of the top 5 best wins in the history of heavyweight boxing. Ali may have been off for a long time but he was in good shape and he had just beaten Quarry and Bonavena. This win means Frazier's quality of wins overall is simply much higher.

If you consider their quality of wins plus the fact that one guy fulfilled his potential and the other did not, you can make a great case for Frazier being ahead.

The only slight gap in Frazier's resume is missing the 210 plus pound big hitters like Lyle and Shavers (whom i believe Frazier likely would have beaten) while Tyson did beat huge hitters like Ruddock and Bruno.
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Mic drop

mcvey · Jun 9, 2025 at 10:12 AM

Anton Frank said: ↑

Ive seen on many all time lists Frazier is ranked higher than Tyson. To me Tyson was always the better version.
Does going 1-3 vs 70s Ali, beating Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Foster better than...
KOing 88 Holmes, Thomas, Tubbs, Tucker and Spinks?

Is losing twice to Foreman better than losing twice to Holyfield?
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Tyson ranks above Frazier imo.

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