Is Ali the HW GOAT?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by AdamT, May 25, 2025.


Is Ali the HW goat?

  1. Yes

    78.0%
  2. No

    22.0%
  1. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dokes, Douglas, Old Holmes, Bowe, Tyson, Mercer, Thomas, >> Fury, aj, Dubois, chisora. Stewart is probably about as good as chisora. Usyk still has his 0 which is something to brag about
     
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  2. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Dokes- post drug years.
    Douglas- Beached whale. Jelly in his breasts.
    Holmes- post 40
    Bowe- good win but he is not as good as people make out.
    Tyson- post prison, drug addicted
    Mercer- not that good. Beaten by Ferguson and post-40 Holmes
    Thomas- post heroin addiction.

    Not a bad series of wins, but in context, not at all a great one, either.

    I'll take FuryX2, AJX2 and Dubois.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2025
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  3. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Holyfields competition ranks higher historically

    Fury: past his prime, struggled with a 37 year old UFC fighter, got dropped twice, fought 2 ranked contenders in the span of 9 years prior to Usyk, fatter than Douglas.
    aj: best wins are old men like POVETKIN !!!, got smoked in 5 by Dubois when he was verbatim at his best, could only beat a 20 pounds fatter Ruiz
    Dubois: Gift stoppage against Lerena after getting dropped 3x, lost to Joyce
     
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  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Clenelo is a pale shadow of his former self, hasn't stopped anyone in four years despite the fact he's been cherrypicking like crazy, and he cannot deal with a certain style to save his life. Khan was boxing a prime way way bigger Clenelo's ears off for 5 rounds prior to getting clipped, supposed ''lightweight'' Crawford looks bigger than Clenelo for goodness sake but people have been pretending it's some David vs Goliath scenario ever since the fight was first mentioned.

    I told everyone that Crawford was walking around at a very lean 177lbs seven years ago and that they were all wrong about this supposed size disparity and that it would likely only be 3-5lbs max and that Crawford has also has a big reach advantage on him too. Now I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Crawford were to weigh more than him. Crawford is moving up to his sixth weight class to fight someone who is the same size as him not way bigger, heavier and longer :facepalm:

    I told you all that not only wouldn't he be facing a ''much bigger man'' when he fought Madrimov but that he would at worst be the same size as him or even bigger and once again I was proven 100% right

    I did the same with Crawford vs Clenelo and look who was bang on the money again

    Multi-weight champs who are actually facing opponents bigger, much or way bigger than them when they ascend through the weight classes and are having to overcome huge physical disadvantages >> massive weight bullies who become multi-weight champions vs opponents they're way, much, or bigger than or at worst roughly the same size in their 4th, 5th and 6th division as they ascend through the weight classes who very rarely or never at all have to overcome huge physical disadvantages as they do so

    Yeah, and we know how many steroids and other PEDs lab creation walking pharmacy Holyfield had to joust in his ass to bridge that gap in order to achieve that don't we
     
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  5. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fury was past his prime
     
  6. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Even if he was Usyk has been for ages too and Belly had knocked out/stopped 4 of his previous 5 opponents. Clenelo has failed to stop anyone in four years

    The size disparity was obscene. 40-55lbs in weight, 7'' in reach, at least 4-5'' in height.

    How many times has Crawford been outweighed by 10lbs, let alone 15-20lbs, 25-30lbs, 40-55lbs?

    How many times has he even been outweighed by 5lbs?

    How many times has he given away 7'' in reach

    He's never been at a reach disadvantage in any of his world title fights spanning four divisions and he had a huge one in his 4th and will in his 6th too

    How many times has he fought outside his home country in 41 fights?

    Once

    How many KO artists and legit punchers has he fought, especially ones his size? Let alone fought a whole bunch of murderous punchers and KO artists his size or way bigger like Usyk has done?

    Clenelo cannot deal with the style Crawford is going to employ to save his life

    Belly with his orangutan reach, height, size and excellent boxing skills posed serious stylistic problems for someone like Usyk
     
  7. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Diminishing returns. Cunningham almost beat Fury. It's an impressive win, but it's hard ranking the win over Crawford hypothetically beating Canelo
     
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    You think that Belly was as good as the version who fought Usyk? He was making his US debut and fought like a moron and didn't use his skills, slickness, counter punching and length. Usyk actually had to work to close the distance and get past that orangutan reach and Belly was able to counter punch him as he was trying to do so :lol:

    And Khan almost beat Clenelo
     
  9. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Someone with Khans accolades would be Furys 2nd best win
     
  10. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    :lol: Khan has a glass jaw and like Crawford has fought a ton of featherfists and average punchers and almost everytime he did face someone who could punch he got knocked out or stopped sans Maidana

    You ducked answering all my questions. You couldn't even tell me how many times Crawford has been outweighed by 5lbs :lol:
     
  11. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Usyk was usually the bigger man at cruiserweight minus gassiev, his achievements are still historic, smaller guys beat bigger guys all the time. Canelos resume >>> Fury no matter how it's angled and Canelo is a PED cheat just like Fury
     
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  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    No he wasn't. He weighed 207lbs and 208lbs respectively for his two fights where the weights were announced

    Crawford was rehydrating as much as 18lbs at 135, 17lbs at 140, easily the same at 147 if not more, 0.2 ounces under 16lbs at 154, and he will be doing at least the same if not more in his sixth weight class

    Usyk was generally fighting guys roughly his size in his first weight class and giants in his second, Crawford has very often been the much bigger man or bigger, rarely smaller, and extremely rarely if ever at all much smaller

    Yes, we know Clenelo has a much better resume than Belly and twice the amount of fights than him but we also know Crawford is at worse the same size as him, with a much longer reach, that lead-footed Clenelo cannot deal with the style Crawford will employ to save his life, and that Clenelo hasn't stopped anyone in four years despite cherrypicking like crazy.

    No matter how you try and swing it Belly with his obscene size, weight and reach advantages, and this version actually knows how to use that range, and with his excellent boxing skills and versatility posed a far tougher stylistic challenge for Usyk than Clenelo does for Crawford and that his power with those obscene size, weight and reach advantages he holds over Usyk presented a very serious threat. Crawford isn't fighting someone 40-60lbs heavier than him with a 7'' reach advantage. He's fighting someone his size with a much shorter reach

    Yes both PED cheats. Crawford is working with Vic Conte and that supposed ''lightweight'' weighs a lean and ripped 186lbs
     
  13. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No they don't because of context, as has been explained. Beating 40 year olds and drug addicts doesn't count for as much.
     
  14. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fury is literally a drug addict and got flattened by a 37 year old mma fighter. joshua is not better than Tyson, old Holmes clears Dubois and Chisora
     
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  15. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Topic completely gone off course again ;)