What If the legendary "Thriller in manilla" had a different outcome?

How would a Frazier victory have altered both of their legacies?

 

I think Ali would’ve retired if he’d lost and so would Frazier for some reason.

 

Frazier walks triumphantly through the vibrant streets of the Philippines, his name echoing in history as the man who bested Muhammad Ali in their brutal final chapter. But as the crowd cheers, his body pays the price, each step a reminder of the war he endured. Slowly, he begins to fade, literally, like he transforms into actual smoke

Ali just retires

 

I think it would be a similar situation to Riddick Bowe taking 2 of 3 from Evander Holyfield, and yet very few knowledgeable boxing people rank Bowe ahead of Holyfield on their all time Heavyweight Ranking Lists. Muhammad Ali would still be ranked #1 or #2 on most lists and Joe Frazier would not. Most would still consider it a styles thing.

 

Riddick Dough and Evander Holyroid both had youth but Muhammad Ali was not Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier that's the difference

 

I always thought Frazier should have been allowed to come out for the 15th round, Ali was finished after the 14th,,,

 

No he wasn’t.

Joe would have been KTFO if he’d come out for the 15th.

He didn’t deserve for it to end that way.

 

Frazier might have died. He was totally blind by that point in the fight and Ali was just teeing off on him without answer. His corner may have literally saved his life.

 

Willie the worm Monroe heard Ali tell his corner after the 14th to cut his gloves off he was done, he was trying to get Frazier's corners attention when the fight was stopped. When Ali heard the fight was over he rose with one hand in the air turned around and collapsed to the mat, it's on film. When Ferdie Pacheco was asked if this was true he didn't deny it...

 

Frazier wouldn’t have gotten knocked out by Ali, his sheer determination and hatred for the man was too strong plus he never went down from all the blows from their fights up till then.

 

Save for when he was blinded vs Liston, Ali never gave hint of any quit in him - and a surrender when literally blinded wouldn’t have been unreasonable at any rate.

Whether he said cut the gloves or not, I don’t know.

If he did, that isn’t proof that he would’ve materially followed through.

No matter how Ali felt, he would’ve known that Joe was very much at the shorter end of the stick.

Ali was in far worse shape vs a perfectly vital Holmes, and Ali knew that from the very first round onwards - he had far more reason to quit before the fight was stopped by his corner - but he didn’t quit - so I think that also vindicates the belief that he wasn’t about to quit against Frazier.

As to IF Frazier won - I think it would’ve changed perceptions and legacies a bit - but to what degree I’m not sure.

It sure as hell it would’ve made Joe a much happier man - bookending their trilogy with victories.

 

It didn't do much for Norton

 

I beg to differ.

Sure, retirement would have been the reasonable sensible decision for BOTH fighters.

However, we know it didnn¨t happen in real life.

After Manila, Frazier went to fight ... Foreman, out of all possible fighters around. Meanwhile, Ali dragged his corpse around for six more excruciating and painful years.

Thus, chances are that regardless who won in Manila, both of them would stay in the game, at least for a while. Simply put, there was too much pride and money involved.

I am not even discarding Ali and Frazier would eventually meet for a 4th time.

 

Agreed. And your reference to Ali’s follow through fights after Manila absolutely steel up your POV.

 

Wasn’t that in the documentary on Manila that should have carried the label “A Cloverlay Production” it was so one-sided toward Frazier?

Ali would have died before he quit. After 50 years people are still underestimating that man’s raw toughness.