The curious case of Jersey Joe Walcott and his prime.

JJW is among the Greatest ATG Boxer's of All-time.

No Question.

 

Where do we rank the 17 dudes who beat him?

Are they the Greatest All Time Great Boxers of All Time Greatness?

 

a few of them pre & post prime are great fighters and the obvious one's Louis, Charles and Marciano are ATG's...

as is clear by my many posts, I don't fall for that Achievement based s hit, I think exactly like the breakdown in the Rummy Video's...

the WHOLE of a Fghter's Career, his opponents too and the Business & Politics of Boxing TELLS the Complete Story.

JJW is an ATG... full stop.

 

When I think of Walcott I can't forget the Marciano rematch. That shameful performance -- and that's exactly what it was -- forever tainted his reputation, or should have. Liebling had it exactly right in "The Sweet Science". Go back and read that piece.

 

He was a spoiler. A very good but inconsistent (unreliable?) heavyweight whose connections in the latter part of his career made all of those title shots possible. Only a sentimental fan would call him an ATG.

 

Look , boxing like life is not always fair or equal .. little support, time to consistently train, prepare, eat well, get rest , it all adds up .. there are endless tales of fighters that could of , would of, should of .. there is no doubt Walcott's initial breaks came ;after in his career which allowed him to dedicate himself and train to maximize the skills his mid thirty year old body still retained .. essentially we got to see 95% of 80% of Joe Walcott .. before that might have been 50% of 95% of a younger Walcott ..

 

In the rematch he was 38 rumoured to be older and had fought leading up to it… Marciano, Louis x2, Rex Layne, Ezzard Charles x4 and Harold Johnson among others… - he injured his right in the RL fight and was mostly left hand happy, got beat up a bit, not really an inconsistency as people say - Layne would become the outstanding contender - Jersey Joe was a spent force his prime ended IMO in the first Louis bout, it was a slow decline from there he was old, cleared the division and was just hanging on.

 

Sure, he was old in 1953 for the rematch. Does being old excuse quitting without first making an effort? He cheated the sport. He cheated the fans. This is like stealing. It's a betrayal of all the ticket buyers and of the general public. When a fighter does that in a title match, it should be remembered. It's remembered when Sonny Liston did it. And it sure as hell damaged Liston's reputation, didn't it? Should Walcott get a pass because he was old? I like Jersey Joe. I liked him in "The Harder They Fall". He showed there that he could act. Better than he acted in the Rocky rematch, but this time he had a director and a screenplay.

 

People still call Liston a all time great even after the rematch with Ali, if anything I don't think it damage his reputation as much in the long run.

 

I see where you’re coming from, I think he was legitimately just plain hurt and unable to fight.

 

Liston lost only four fights and dominated the division for 4-5 years. He was uniquely talented and powerful. His credentials were superior to Walcott's. He wasn't able to fight in the United States for two years. He never again got a big-money fight. He died in disgrace and we still talk about the Lewiston debacle today, 60 years later. While many of us consider him an ATG, usually it's with an acknowledgment that his integrity was questionable at best.

 

The guy who rolled through everyone and clearly earned his oppurtunities gets suspected of mob affiliation off of vibes.

The guy who fought when the mob actually controlled boxing was, showered with title shots after losing fights, got a bye in the mob controlled process to name Louis's successor, had one of his best opponents DQ'd for not trying that guy passes the sniff test.

I don't think Walcott was actually complicit anymore than anyone else was given that the IBC ran the sport but the fact remains he got favorable treatment from a boxing estbalishment that the mob was found to control. I think it comes down to him being a recognizable name but regardless that treatment is the reason he is a household name 70 years after the fact.

 

I get your point but let's be clear. Liston wasn't "suspected" of mob ties because of "vibes". His long-rumored mob ties were exposed by a U.S. Senate subcommittee investigation of the Mafia's control of boxing. You might say he took the heat for a lot of fighters.

 

I was married to someone who argued like that!

 

well that impliction suggests I offered no arguement or discussion, "I Did"

I stated elsewhere, I too review Boxer's just as Rummy's Video does - in Full Context of an overall career & that of their/his opponents too.

so I have offered plenty of cause for consideration, which concludes ATG, No Question.

so Watch the Walcott Video in this thread.