Rank the best H2H swarmers: Armstrong, Harada, Duran, Pryor, Chang, Chavez, Fenech, Chocolatito

You don't have to see Harry Greb to know he was a swarmer. He was known as windmill style fighter.

 

Ayy he the was, the Pittsburgh Windmill was a wild one

 

Best H2H

1. Armstrong / Duran
2. Harada
3. Chang
4. Chavez
5. Fenech
6. Pryor

I don't consider Chocolatito a swarmer.

 

Greb #1.

 

Theres no footage of Bach composing. We still have his body of work though.

 

the footage we have available of course

 

Armstrong
Duran
Chavez
Harada
Chang
Pryor
Chocolatito
Fenech

Idk about Greb's resume h2h at welterweight,so yeah I'll discount him at the time I'm writing this.

I originally thought that Duran was more well schooled than Armstrong,but maybe pressure fighting/swarming wise he tops Duran for that, Duran needs to pull out all of his versatile skillsets to topple Armstrong at welterweight.

 

That comparison makes no sense though. How can we surmise the ability of a fighter through their record and the ravings of their local sportswriters? We don't need footage of Bach writing sheet music at all to evaluate how exemplary a musician he was. We don't need to know anything about the creative process of any kind of artist to evaluate the merit of their work. With Greb, we have the opposite scenario, where we don't actually have any of his body of work but do have a bit of his creative process. We have training footage where he looks like a disable toddler who's been possessed by a demon who doesn't know how to control limbs, and that's it. I understand that this forum is, by and large, incredibly infatuated with Greb, but it is actually impossible to surmise his H2H ability as a fighter when we don't have a single shred of footage of him actually in the ring. We have no ****ing clue of the nuances of how he fought inside of an actual prize ring apart from the vague and often contradictory accounts of early 20th Century sportswriters.

 

We have some sports comics of him, one drawing showing Greb's entire family beating on Tunney. I think that's a pretty hard fight plan to beat.

How many fighters do YOU know who could beat up an entire family of windmills?

 

We do have his body of work , it's called his resume, which is second to none.. we have the testimony of many of the great fighters who fought him & we have the literature of numerous writer's, trainers
& historians who witnessed his career too. Same with Tiger Flowers .. resume is king.

The training footage is just Greb pissing about, don't take it too seriously.. by all accounts he was at times quite an ugly unorthodox fighter .. had a messy style that no one could really get to grips with. I don't think anyone ever argued he was the most beautiful fighter to watch , but what does it matter.. he was effective. His resume is UNDENIABLE.

The OP asks who was the greatest swarming fighter, Grebs style by all accounts is clearly that of a swarmer.. Greb is the GOAT. Therefore Greb.

Put your dummy back in. My analogy was fine

 

Reread the thread title. It says head to head, who is the best swarmer, not the greatest. If we're evaluating head to head ability, then we need footage of a fighter to figure out what they're good at and what their weaknesses are. We can't do that with Greb, so we can't judge how well he would fare head to head. So his case as head to head best swarmer is null and void. Resume is irrelevant to the discussion. E.g., I think Duran has the best resume out of anybody listed but in terms of ability as a swarmer, Jung Koo Chang was a monster when it came to swarming into range and letting his hands go on the inside, whereas Duran was more methodical and didn't have the same urgency or volume to his work that Chang did. I can't make any kind of comparison with Greb because, again, we have no footage of him.

And in terms of logic, your analogy was fallacious since you weren't comparing like for like.

And don't come at me with condescending talk of dummies, that's just bad taste and rude.

 

Well obviously it can’t be from a fight.

 

Jose Napoles
Henry Armstrong
Julio Cesar Chavez
Fighting Harada
Roberto Duran
Jeff Fenech
Jung Koo Chang
Aaron Pryor


Duran always stuck me as a “bit” overrated when you hear “most skilled fighter ever on film” etc the separation between him and the other true greats isn’t anything - JCC, Harada. Armstrong are all on a similar level a “tier”

 

1- Roberto Duran

2- Chocolatito

3- Fighting Harada

4- Jung Koo Chang

5- Julio Cesar Chavez Jr

6- Jeff Fenech


7- Henry Armstrong

8- Aaron Pryor