If Marciano Had Fought Valdes,Baker,& Henry?

Well, I guess being that Nino lost to Archie Moore 2X that Archie was the more deserving fighter. Valdes also lost to 5"10 180 lb. Harold Johnson and took a bad beating vs 5"10 183lb Bob Satterfield (getting dropped in the last round for a 9 count) so If Nino was deserving, I think Marciano would have ground Nino down and stopped Nino.

Bob Baker was Ko'd in 1 rd. by Bob Satterfield in 1953 and Archie Moore Ko'd Baker in 1954, Archie also beat Harold Johnson by TKO 14 and beat Joey Maxim and stopped Bert Whitehurst right after stopping Baker. So, I think the question should be if Marciano fought anyone except Archie Moore, what would people be saying- "Rocky ducked Archie"

Clerance Henry was a good fighter but lost to Harold Johnson, Archie Moore Jimmy Slade and Tommy Jackson from 1952-1954 so that would be more props for fighting Archie.

Also, Roland Lastarza was 53-3 going into the Marciano fight, losing only to Marciano, Dan Bucceroni and Rocky Jones and beat them both in rematches so at the time of the rematch Lastarza had beaten everyone he fought except Marciano and even though he was dropped by Marciano it was a close fight. Lastarza was a fight Rocky had to fight.

Cockell may have been Marciano's weakest challenge, and he was #2 contender, but Cockell was on a roll beating Tommy Farr, Johnny Arthur, Harry Matthews 2X and Roland Lastarza.

Marciano fought the more deserving fighters, never drew the color line and 34-1 Rex Layne was a tough crossroads match who beat the only man to beat him Dave Whitlock KO 4 and also beat Turkey Thompson, Joe Walcott, Cesar Brion, Bob Satterfield tko 8 - We know Rex was never the same after the one punch Marciano ko
Marciano would have stopped Baker and Nino IMO, probably in a more dramatic way like he did Rex Layne, Carmine Vingo and other big guys but we would all be talking about how Rocky ducked Lastarza and Archie Moore right now.

 

Over 60 fights were against HWs..,I believe you know this. That’s more fights than most pros finish with. An excellent HW record

actually his only losses at HW came after the age of 38 against Marciano, Patterson then Ali.

 

Moore's record in bouts contested above 180lbs was 60something-4-3. The other loss being to Giulio Rinaldi, which came between his defeats to Patterson and Ali.

 

I believe rinaldi fights were LHW. He only had three losses at HW. Ali, Patterson and Marciano.

 

Just on LaStarza's qualifications, here are the NBA quarterly ratings for 1953:

January 5, 1953 (before Layne-LaStarza match)

Champion--Rocky Marciano
1--Jersey Joe Walcott
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Rex Layne
4--Roland LaStarza
5--Clarence Henry

April 21, 1953 (After LaStarza outpoints Layne)

Champion--Rocky Marciano
1--Jersey Joe Walcott
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Roland LaStarza
4--Dan Bucceroni
5--Harry Matthews
6--Rex Layne

July 7, 1953 (After Marciano KO's Walcott. Last NBA ratings prior to LaStarza challenging Marciano)

Champion--Rocky Marciano
1--Ezzard Charles
2--Roland LaStarza
3--Dan Bucceroni
4--Bob Satterfield
5--Tommy Harrison
6--Coley Wallace
7--Harry Matthews

October 13, 1953 (first ratings after Marciano ko's LaStarza and Charles is upset by Valdes)

Champion--Rocky Marciano
1--Dan Bucceroni
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Roland LaStarza
4--Nino Valdes

My comment--LaStarza was 53-3. He had reversed his defeats to Bucceroni and Jones. His only unavenged loss was a split decision to Marciano. He had wins over top five contenders Layne and Bucceroni. He also had beaten two other rated fighters, Jones and Cesar Brion. So LaStarza came into the Marciano challenge having beaten four men rated when he fought them. I think that is probably an above average total if we study all contenders over the years. My take is LaStarza was an extremely qualified contender. He was carefully managed, but that has never been unusual.

 

The fight Moore beat Rinaldi was at LHW, the fight Rinaldi beat Moore was at HW - the bout was contested at over 190lbs. For comparison, Moore's loss vs Patterson was contested under 188lbs. Both bouts were contested at HW by the rules of the day.

 

I said Cockell was Marciano's weakest challenger but rated #2 _ Lastarza beat some decent fighters, Ceasar Brion, Rex Layne, losing and winning against Dan Bucceroni who beat guys like Jimmy Slade, Hein Ten Hoff, Tommy Harrison, Roland gave Marciano a decent fight in the 1st match, getting off the floor

Vingo was listed at 6"4 and I know boxrec.com changed it but if you look at the video of Marciano VS Vingo you can see he looked about 4-5 inches taller than Rocky

I agree that Lastarza was never the same after fighting Rocky but who was after a Marciano fight - Walcott, Charles, Layne, Moore, Lastarza, all never really recovered and especially Carmine Vingo

 

I spent quite a while trying to trace the source of the story that Carmine Vingo was 6'4" and never came up with an answer. At 189 lbs, it would have made him quite a beanpole. This picture of him and Marciano posing together before their fight shows there really wasn't a massive difference.

https://ibb.co/ZNhwFqp

 

I also have no idea why they reduced Vingo's height to 6 foot. Admittedly Vingo was closer to 6'3" than 6'4", but he was definitely over 6 foot tall. My teacher Big George Giambastiani, who was a couple of years ahead of Vingo had the same manager as Vingo on the east coast was about 6'5" and from the pictures I'd seen with both Vingo and him together Vingo was slightly shorter, but not by much.

 

The problem with judging Vingo's height in this picture with Marciano's is that Vingo is standing behind Marciano and Marciano isn't right next to Vingo. However, Lee Sala, who is about Marciano's height is standing next to Vingo's left shoulder and is much closer to Vingo, so the height difference is more noticeable even with Vingo bending his head down.

A similar example of a picture being misleading is this picture with both Holyfield and Lennox. Lennox doesn't look that much taller than Holyfield in this picture because he's standing behind him, but if they were standing shoulder to shoulder Lennox would tower over Holyfield.
https://imgur.com/nbhrp6i

Here is another picture of the same fighters from that event in 1949, which better shows Vingo's height.
https://imgur.com/UdnZnpU

Vingo was around the same height as guys like Valdes, Charley Powell, Max Baer, ect..

Here are a few pictures with Marciano with guys over 6 foot.

Here is a picture with Rocky Marciano and Nino Valdes
https://imgur.com/TrcosIY

Rocky Marciano and Carmine Vingo
https://imgur.com/bAoZzsw

Rocky Maricano and Max Baer
https://imgur.com/fYDkRH5

Rocky Marciano and Jim Norris
https://imgur.com/9buWeMh

Rocky Marciano and Mac Foster
https://imgur.com/hjdfz5h

 

They changed it because press reports from the time give his height as 6 feet. If anyone can find a contemporary source supporting the 6'4" figure I'll be genuinely interested to see it.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/104330429/carmine-vingo-height/
https://ibb.co/6ZkXgSc