James Toney vs Sugar Ray Leonard

A world where Ray Leonard beat Marvin Hagler while James Toney got whipped by Dave Tiberi and went life and death with Reggie Johnson.

It's called reality.

 

Indeed they would

 

in a world where he had to wait 5 years for a champion to run dry, then shoot for a disputed decision over a shell and failed to make one title defense and ran scared of any LIVE competition at 160

I sure didnt see Ray Leonard take on Nunn when he had the chance

James Toney did the trick. Leonard didnt

neither did I see leonard in with the likes of Johnson

who should I give credit to; the guy who DID or the guy who didnt?

 

You really do hate Ray.

 

Leonard was a fantastic fighter whereas Toney was very good but could be inconsistent, i would pick Leonard.

 

Leonard picked a pocket that night, smoke, mirrors and a rabbit outa hat. He didn't beat Hagler, and not beating that version of Hagler speaks volumes about what would have happened with peak, prime, focused Hagler. And yet, he got the 'w', but sometimes history doesn't give is the full picture...

 

A lot of posters have that opnion.
Personally I don't agree.
I believe Leonard would beat Hagler prime vs prime.
And my opnion was believed by No less of an authority than the legendary Roberto Duran who told Leonard he'd beat Hagler right after he fought him.
Hagler could be taken out of his game and out foxed.
Even in his prime, he could be confused by certain styles, especially against slick counter punchers, which Duran demonstrated in his fight against him.
Duran confused Hagler and made him hesitant.
Though Hagler Rightfully won the fight, he didn't dominate against the smaller Duran the way he was expected too.
I believe Leonard would've done even better and got the victory as early as 1982, when they were originally were set to fight.
Hagler would destroy most of the great middleweights in history. Aggressive, powerful, middleweights that came at him allowed him to do what he did best in his prime, that was feast off of there aggression. He countered expertly.
But force him to adjust to an opponents counters usually made him overthink .
Leonard had that ability.

 

Very good post

 

Ray

 

Leonard isn’t a big fella, Toney is a natural 185-195lbs fighter, Leonard had his hands full with Duran on the inside… I’d really not like Leonard’s chances at close quarters here, he’d probably be overpowered, Toney is about as good as the best ever inside, same tier as fighters like Duran there, Leonard could not hurt him, could not get inside or at least shouldn’t and I think that after some heavy counters Leonard would get shy with his right hand, his arsenal would shrink as the fight would go on and Toney may just tame him to a UD.

 

In a middleweight fight between these two great champions, I think Leonard's footwork and speed would have been decisive. Leonard won on points by a narrow but clear margin.

 

That’s the issue with boxing peanut gallery’s… maybe it’s a human thing? We usually try to give a guy a few notable attributes in our head but really overall Toney was just good at everything… inside, outside everything in between JT didn’t throw a single punch wrong, could punch hard and fast he rarely made a mistake when he was on… and as Emmanuel Steward said “he was never convincingly beaten” funnily people who have shared the ring with Toney noted he was incredible when he synced up his hands and feet, got moving and really fought mobile. JT was the equal to guys like Robinson in terms of talent, skill and education and absolutely is under appreciated

 

This fight would be like when Benny Hill used to slap Jackie Wright's head. Anyway, I'm goin' walk about.

 

I dont think 160 was a great weight for Ray. I'll take James here

 

I would be inclined to favoring James Toney. While Ray Leonard certainly pulled off some miracles in his second career, middleweight simply wasn’t his division. In contrast, James Toney was undefeated under 168 and beat Mike McCallum and Michael nunn. Leonard was p4p the better fighter and a personal favorite of mine. But the parameters of this match don’t work to his advantage.