Where do you rank Oleksandr Usyk as an ATG great heavyweight?

Usyk’s the GOAT. Two time undisputed and whooped up on all these Super Heavyweights being undersized in the division and has done so mostly right in their backyards. Also all his amateur achievements. GOAT

 

As a HW, between 6 and 10, as a cruiserweight, he's the second best behind Holyfield. An unbelievable fighter and an icon of the sport but recency bias has people getting far too carried away.

 

(Sigh heavily here)

Look, a significant part of Usyk's legacy is at cruiser. Now, I am one of those who always rolls a guy's legacy when he moves up in weight. For example, I am a huge Charles fan, and it means a lot more to me that he has wins over Charley Burly and Lloyd Marshall, than if he started at heavy and got additional wins over the Tami Maurillos and Lee Savolds of boxing. It's just how I think.

Most people have made it clear they do not agree, and we have had no end if discussion about it.

I rank Usyk as a top 5 heavy. I can respect that most see him as #1 cruiser, top 20 heavy, and somewhere on the Pound for Pound spectrum. All well and good. We agree that he is great.

 

What gets boxing fans on this forum carried away most of all is 1. Media bias 2. Nostalgia for their youth. These factors among others result in old boxers being grotesquely overrated.

Holyfield had five losses at Usyk’s age (Bowe, Moorer, Bowe, Lewis, Ruiz) while never fighting away. Not in the same class.

 

Oleksander Usyk has fought 4 different heavyweights and Chazz Witherspoon. Thats by far the biggest knock on him. You can't compare that to guys who got ran through a guantlet, guys with lengthy title runs. You just can't compare what Usyk has done to that.

 

And he was on PEDs.

 

Amongst the very best, but I wouldn't say he is the GOAT.

In a legacy sense you have Muhammad Ali.

In a prime for prime sense you have Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Ali, etc.

 

Foreman, Lewis, Wlad, Mike, Holmes, Holyfield, Ali, Louis rank above hm for sure IMO.

 

Top 5. Even an argument for top 3. It’s hard for me to rationalise him over Ali and Lewis though.

 

His resume is kind of short.

H2H he might beat anybody.

But on "greatness" it is hard to place him high against guys that have a career at the weight.

 

Yes very hard to rank. But i think a top 10 spot is warranted. He has shown a blueprint on how to beat bigger heavyweights.

In no order, top 12:

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Lewis
Holyfield
Liston
Tyson
Frazier
Usyk
Marciano
Wlad

I think as time goes by, instead of a top 10, we need to focus on top 15. Ten names are not enough as the history of boxing keeps increasing. We can't fit every deserving fighter in the top 10 so the standard list should be more like top 15.

 

Assuming he retired today, right around 6. Would be the second undefeated heavyweight ATG with a very solid run of wins.

 

Usyk would have at least 2 losses if he fought the calibre of opposition Holyfield did. Beating a 28 stone coke head twice, Joshua twice, and Dubois who has room temperature boxing IQ twice does not put you amongst the pantheon of greats for me.

It's not nostalgia for my youth, I wasn't even born when Holyfield reigned at CW. Let's see if people still consider Usyk a top 5 HW in a decade from now once a new generation has emerged and wins against Dubois, Fury and Joshua don't actually look that great once the dust is settled. Is Usyk an ATG cruiserweight? Absolutely. Do I think he's above some of the titans of the division because he beat a conveyer belt of the same overrated British fighters repeatedly? No.