To all the people claiming Usyk is the greatest Heavyweight

The fact that Usyk had way more difficulty at cruiserweight than at heavyweight - while pushing 40 - should tell you something about this era of heavyweights.

 

Usyk is 6'2

 

Usyk fought 6 Brits, 1 had gipsy heritage, 1 had Nigerian heritage, 1 had Jamaican heritage, 4 South Africans, 3 of whom had Dutch heritage, 1 Mexican, 1 Colombian, 1 Argentinian, 2 Germans, 1 with Bosnian ancestors, the other with Ghanians, 1 Cuban, 1 Ukrainian, 1 Latvian, 1 Pole, 1 Russian with Ossetian origin, 1 American.
****ing hell, he must be TBE according to your ******ed logic

 

Bowe got beat up by Golota. Usyk would have made Golota have a nervous breakdown

 

He's not a SHW hes an average size modern HW. Compared to past fighters he's big but relative to today fighters he's not. Doesn't matter how many fights Marcanio had he never fought SHWs like Fury, Joshua or Dubois (all of whom would beat him and every fighter he fought if we're being honest just because of the size difference). Hell he didn't even fight real HWs, mostly blown up LHWs like Moore.

 

I admit that tbh. But this whole conversation is absurd. We're in a thread about Usyk being the greatest HW and look at some of these insane things being said. I know Usyk isn't really a Commonwealth champ(which used to be a major belt). I'm complaining about him fighting the same guys the fact they are all British is a coincidence. But during Pax America when the top guys were almost always mostly all American HW champs still found the time to let the British champ have a shot and for the European champ to have a shot. Even if today people usually ask "why did Dunn get a title shot, why did Tangstad get a title shot". Louis had the most valid excuse there is to not fight non Americans and he still got to the best 3 Euros of his age and to Tommy Farr.

Honestly they aren't the clear top 5 of his division because no one fought anyone for 5 years. And Usyk while not the starter of that, has continued the closed round robin that is this era of HW. We have no earthly idea Dubois, Fury and AJ have been the top 3 HWs at any point. And this fight suggests Eddie Hearn took us for a ride and Dubois isn't that great and he only became a champ because Hrgovic took him lightly. AJ has a paper chin how did he go 24 with Usyk again if Usyks such a lethal killing machine? Maybe Dubois's just not that good and Eddie Hearn took advantage of the low standard Fury and Wilder were setting for far too long. Since like 2018 what do we really know about the hierarchy of the HW division? We know nothing. We were duped, tricked.

Usyk has 3 interim champs(including another Brit) and multiple mandatorys. Hes got flexibility he didn't have to do anything. Hes going to fight Chisora whose got more losses at HW then Usyk has fights. I'm not going to blame him for almost losing to Chisora because taking 5 is what Chisora does and Chisora playing by his own rules that don't apply to anyone else is a whole seperate topic but come on. You've got limited time to prove things and you're fighting Chisora? Fury got ripped apart for that nonsense. And he should have been. But now no one cares.

If people were honest about Usyks resume this whole conversation would be different. But people are saying "Usyk has nothing to prove". Fans of guys like Calzaghe and Andre Ward love their fighter might think their fighter can do anything but they are honest that the fights to prove that never got made. Usyk fans just throw everything out in favor of living in la la land. Hes breaking glass ceilings that don't exist, hes dominating fights he usually isn't(not tonight), he has had a long storied career he hasn't had. Usyk is a 24-0 boxer. While the whole 5 HW opponents 8 fights is a nice talking point if we take his whole career HW/CW its a very very short career. With Beterbiev people are like "its such a shame Beterbiev didn't do this that or that and time is running out". With Usyk its "hes got nothing more to prove". He does. He has a lot more to prove for the best of his era his resume is not good.

 

So I understand this correctly...

Usyk's spotless 4-0 record over the consensus top 2 heavyweights of his era is to be viewed more critically.....because of an accident of geography???

And we're supposed to take this criticism seriously and pretend as though it were leveled in good faith.

I suppose if he campaigns on and defeats Kayabel and Parker, the new battle cry will be: Well sh*t, he never fought anyone from Antarctica, did he???

Good Ole ESB.

 

He dropped 21 rounds in those fights and its almost his whole resume.

Oh you guys are the ones who struggle to take criticism seriously. Who could cricize Usyk? Theres clearly nothing wrong with his immaculate resume.

If Usyk beats Kabayel and Hrgovic(I don't need Usyk to beat Parker, I recognize hes an interim champ but I don't doubt Usyk can beat him) I will recognize him as the best HW of this period. But his CV is short and non dominant for someone of that stature and everyone is living in a fantasy land where that doesn't matter cause he beat 2 guys whose ducking these same people were complaining about for years.

 

The heavyweight division is 4 guys ?

 

Please share your top 10 HW of all time.

 

He lost 21 rounds?? And?

How many of those fights did he lose??

Or is cumulative round scoring over the course of a career the new metric by which we evaluate a fighter? Moving the goal posts a little there, my guy??

Usyk cleaned out CW by beating everyone of note in that division and has since beaten the 3 best HWs presently campaigning.

I certainly don't think he's the greatest HW of all-time. Hell, I'm not entirely certain he's the CW GOAT.

But what I do know is that he's a modern ATG. If you can't acknowledge as much, that's your problem.

 

Winner take all culture where "you're either first or your last" and context no longer matters. Details matter. How good you did in a fight matters. Results aren't everything.

CW is a tweener division that was created to give Jerry Quarry a safe space. I don't care. And if I did hes 24-0. His resume is short. Usyks tall people have him and his resume confused.

He might be the best of this era. This era of HW champions and the way they treated contenders has been an embarassment to the very essence of sport. And Usyk didn't start it but he didn't reverse it. When he became champ the HW division was clogged like a taco bell toilet and he did not fix it and has shown no intent to fix it. If he fights Kabayel, Hrgovic and changes all the credit to him. No interest has been expressed in it.

Fights are won and lost by rounds. I'm not moving the goalposts thats how this sport is scored. On one hand you'll tell me results are all that matter. Those results are counting rounds. So counting rounds is good enough for Ws and Ls but is otherwise relevant? You can't have it both ways.

 

Usyk's toughest opponent at heavyweight of all people was arguably 6'0 Derek Chisora. A Chisora who gets battered by the likes of a Bowe or a Holyfield let alone the likes of a Muhammad Ali. And don't say "the modern era" when Usyk's toughest fights were against cruiserweights!

 

Greatness is determined in the ring, not mythical matchups.