To all the people claiming Usyk is the greatest Heavyweight

Usyk’s a great fighter.

But there’s some strange takes here.

Holmes didn’t duck Page. And he’s one of the most skilled HW’s of all time.

As was Louis.

Frazier would have caused Usyk issues with his relentless pressure fighting style.

Every fighter in history has stylistic issues, which can be capitalised on by somebody. And Usyk has struggled with certain styles.

Ali never fought anyone like Usyk, but then Usyk has never seen anyone like Ali before.

Lewis and Wlad were extremely consistent.

At the end of the day, Usyk has only fought 5 HW’s.

 

But then he’s only had 24 fights, with just 5 opponents at HW.

Context.

 

Honestly, Mayweather's self-anointed nickname "TBE" (The Best Ever), applies perhaps best to Usyk.

His HW generation will never elicit the nostalgia factor of the golden age heavyweights, Parker included if they fight. So GOAT is out, but TBE seems apt for the man from Ukraine.

 

Bottom-line is we're all simply opining. None of us knows of course precisely how Usyk would have done tangling with anyone on this thread's top-10 list.

As fond and nostalgic as I am for prior champs, the reality is that sports evolve, the science of them evolves, the training evolves to better fine-tune what works and doesn't, today's HWs have the advantage of studying styles that came before them, the refereeing has changed, etc. etc.

Is there a (US) football fan who would suggest Frank Gifford was a greater quarterback than Tom Brady? (Let's just say I'm exaggerating to make a point... OK, now cue the "Apples vs. Oranges" counterarguments... )

These "What If?" exercises are always entertaining, but dismissing Usyk's status by saying (as some do here) that all of today's HWs suck is a little unfair and not terribly accurate.

 

As I indicated, I have enormous respect (and even affection, despite some of his occasional less-classy comments) for Holmes. And there's no denying he kept busy, earning all his victories. And I feel he was robbed in his Spinks re-match.

But, were he still around, Page would beg to differ with you. He posed for the cover of Ring magazine calling Holmes out as "a chicken-livered coward."

 

Not an unreasonable post.

Nevertheless, whatever one thinks of this era, it's a bit revisionist for anyone to suggest that Fury and Joshua were not considered the best heavyweights around when Usyk fought each for the first time. Yes, Fury struggled with Wallin, but he then bounced back and defeated Wilder twice, then the most dangerous puncher in the division.

And while he may have performed poorly against Ngannou, Fury was still the betting favorite in the run-up to Usyk-Fury I. What does that tell you? Usyk was also an underdog vs Joshua I, this time by an even larger margin.

Ultimately, Usyk has little control over the current state of the heavyweight division or of contemporary heavyweights in general. For that we must await the judgment of history. In the interim, all Usyk can do is fight the best available, and he's largely done that.

 

A well-articulated post.

 

You are indeed on a very lonely island, my guy, if you believe Hrgovic, Kabayel, or Wardley were in consideration for the top 2 heavyweights in the world when Usyk fought Joshua and Fury for the first time.

 

It makes for an interesting debate.

I’ll just add a few things to your post:

Evander wasn’t shot against Lennox.

Mike was. But Evander wasn’t.

Yes, Evander lost to Bowe and was inconsistent. But then Usyk has never fought anyone like Bowe, with his attributes.

Yes, Lennox never saw anybody like Usyk before. But then Usyk never saw anybody like Lennox before.

Yes, you couldn’t see Usyk losing to guys like McCall and Rahman. But then Usyk has struggled with guys who wouldn’t have bothered Lennox. It’s just styles. Also, Lennox just went through the motions against Rahman and was caught napping. A Lennox coming towards the end of his career having had far more fights.

You have given Usyk praise for fighting live bodies in AJ and Fury, but then have criticised them by saying that their best wins were against an ageing Wlad who they both barely beat.

I don’t see how beating Parker would be the difference maker in whether of not he rated above Frazier.

 

Don’t be an idiot.

 

Those guys hadn’t done anything, when Usyk had first fought AJ and Fury.

 

What needs to be agreed is Usyk's completion of boxing... Amateurs, Olympics and two weight classes. Not many have done what he has. It really doesn't matter how little his resume is at HW is. He has beaten everyone there is to beat. Usyk will be judged by the history books of what went.

 

They’re both great fighters.

Really, Ali had 3 stanzas in his career:

The pre exile one.

The version where he won his most famous fights.

The awful final part, where with hindsight, he shouldn’t have been licensed.

Now there’s no doubt in my mind that Usyk would have beaten Ali at 35 plus.

Leon Spinks beat Ali around that stage.

However, that is not the best version of Ali.

Every fighter ages differently in the ring, simply depending on their styles and their circumstances.

It’s mileage.

Usyk is of an advanced age, but he’s only fought 24 pro fights.

Now as a fan who’s studied the sport for over 30 years and who’s not blinded by nostalgia, I can tell you that the best version of Ali could absolutely have beaten any version of Usyk.

Ali has never seen a southpaw so gifted.

But then Usyk has never seen anyone so gifted as Ali.

He’s never seen anyone as fast. With that incredible hand and foot speed, with those reflexes, from a highly unorthodox style. Nobody anywhere near as elusive. Nobody who could feint, circle and jump in an and out of range with such speed. Nobody that could throw combinations as fast and as accurate.

They were both the same size.

Same height.

Same reach.

Same weight.

A similar level of power.

Usyk more textbook.

Ali more unorthodox.

Ali was significantly faster in all departments.

Ali could have beaten him to the punch.

Ali would have had a very realistic chance of getting a decision win over him.

 

Fabio Wardley?

Ha!

You can’t be serious.

Fury had a rematch clause, and most fans were happy to see it again.

Stop being silly.

Wardley hasn’t even proven if he’s a world level HW.

 

Nobody knows for sure what would happen or would have happened.

But we can make objective and educated guesses based upon a number of factors.

What we know for sure is the following:

Usyk is a great fighter.

He hasn’t had many HW fights and opponents.

He has stylistic weaknesses, just like any fighter in history, at any weight.

The sport has evolved, but it doesn’t keep continuously evolving.

There were many fighters and divisions of yesteryear, that were just superior to some fighters and divisions of today.