1964 Muhammad Ali vs Deontay Wilder

Wilder gets utterly tuned up while trying - and failing - to land his only decent punch on Ali. If Liston - a far better boxer with greater punch variety than Wilder - couldn't deal with him, then there is no way the Bronze Bomber can.

If Ali decides to press it early and force Wilder back, then he wins in 3 or 4. Wilder is shite at fighting while going backwards and Ali will just light him up.

Otherwise he dances around, tormenting Wilder and posts a late stoppage or clear decision win. Wilder is brave but utterly outmatched here.

 

Ref has to stop the fight, while Wilder is on his feet.

 

Then a repeat of what happened to Terrell.

 

Doesn't get much a stronger example of boxer v puncher here.

Foreman gets regarded as a rough brawler who bullied his opponents but he was in fact a very clever fighter whom used old school techniques to win fights.

Wilder was super tough, quick and powerful but he just had very poor ring IQ and was not a clever fighter.

 

Ali inside of 5 or 6. His handspeed and power totally overwhelm the no defense having chinless wonder, and Ali was always a brilliant finisher once he got a guy in trouble.

 

One gets awfully tired punching air, as Wilder will be doing while his face is shredded by jabs.

 

Well, let's see.

It's December 2018.

So we'd have a 33-year-old Deontay Wilder, who was 40-0 with 39 KOs, defending his WBC Heavyweight Title for the EIGHTH time, second time that year, against Cassius Clay, the former light heavyweight gold medalist who competed in the Olympics a little more than three years earlier.

Clay, the challenger, would be 22 years old. He was 19-0.

In Wilder's last two fights, he's stopped former WBC Champ Bermane Stiverne, with a record of 25-2-1 and weighing 254 pounds, in one round, flooring him three times. (Scoring Wilder's sixth successful title defense).

And, in March of the year he fought Clay, Wilder stopped unbeaten Cuban Luis Ortiz (28-0 and weighing 241 pounds) in 10 rounds, flooring Ortiz three times, to successfully defend for the seventh time.

On the other hand, the young Cassius Clay hasn't fought in a year and half (18 months) since he got off the floor to stop Henry Cooper (with a record of 27-8-1 and weighing 185 pounds) on cuts at Wembley, to notch his 19th win.

In the fight before that, two years earlier, Clay went 10 rounds with Doug Jones (with a record of 23-3-1 and weighing 188 pounds) and won a controversial decision that was booed by fans at Madison Square Garden.

Deontay Wilder is 212 pounds. Cassius Clay is 210.

On this boxing message board, everyone here would be saying Clay was the absolute WORST person Wilder has yet defended against. Clay's a scrawny fellow American, they'd say, who couldn't even beat Beterbiev or Bivol.

I know in a previous thread I said Deontay Wilder loses twice to the Cassius Clay who fought Liston, but, frankly, I think it would be a tall order for the 22-year-old Clay to win this.

Clay wasn't sturdy like he was later in his career. He was floored in his previous fight against Cooper the year before. And he was also floored by Billy Daniels the year before that.

Wilder hits so much harder than those guys.

Wilder was also floored once by Harold Sconiers EIGHT YEARS earlier, but Wilder got up to floor Sconiers FOUR times and simply demolished him.

So, Wilder has gone nearly a decade without going down, while Clay has been floored in each of the last two years entering the fight.

If we're speculating ...

Wilder didn't charge in like Liston, so both guys will keep their distance early in the fight.

Wilder liked to punch from range, so did Clay. It would probably be a low-output, kind of dull affair until Wilder floored Clay around the fourth or fifth.

Knowing he needed to step it up, Clay would. I think Clay would take over in the middle rounds. Around the 10th, I think Wilder drops him again. Clay gets up again. And rallies over the final five.

It goes the distance. Clay wins in a huge upset to take the title via 15-round decision.

But at least one judge has it a draw, or Wilder up, because of the two knockdowns.

Neither guy is quitting (like Liston did), that's for sure. So, there are no KOs.

After the fight, fans here insist Clay is too small to hold the title very long. Joshua or Fury would demolish the tiny Clay, they'll insist. And they'll say Wilder lost to the WORST heavyweight champion in boxing history, a guy who THEY thought didn't even beat Doug Jones.

That's about how it would shape up, I think. Unless Wilder stopped Clay, in which case the fans would bash Wilder for fighting such a terrible challenger who had no chance.

 

He was called Clay before the fight.

 

If Clay won in 1964, it would be a huge upset.

It would most certainly be a bigger upset than the Liston upset.

Because Wilder was 40-0 with 39 KOs, while Liston was 35-1 with only 25 knockouts. And Liston was making his second defense while Wilder was making his eighth.

And Wilder was demolishing giants, while Ali was struggling with 180 pounders, and getting floored by some of them, heading in.

At that time, it would be a huge reach to pick Clay. Given that Clay almost quit against Liston himself, I'm basically picking Ali because I know what he became later ... not who he was then.

But, at the moment, he wasn't that guy yet. Still ... he had to become Ali at some point.

 

Sonny Banks.

 

You’d win a gold medal in Olympic-level mental gymnastics.

 

Very good post.
My initial thought was that while Ali would certainly struggle with, and probably lose to, many of the very tall modern heavies, it wouldn't be with Wilder. You have made me rethink that.